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  • Machine not in zero position when off

    Just a question...

    Now that counter people have less contol about the machine(8270) with the computer controlled on/off when they close a lane, a lot of times the machine is off without being in zero position. Besides that the machine looks out of order(I hate it), it does sometimes give a problem if the lane is hired again(it's not coming to zero without some help).
    I allready did think about solving this, but I can't imagine somebody else did this before me and found a good and cheap solution for it(or will this topic grow as big as the auto sweep reverse topic ? -I hope not).

    Maybe it's good to mention this : in the Netherlands lanes are hired by the hour, not for a couple of games(I'm not talking about leaguebowling ofcourse).

    Hope to hear something about this...

    Thanks

    Martin

    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by lampie (edited 01-31-2001).]
    So it goes.

  • #2
    Re: Machine not in zero position when off

    Martin

    There is a cheap way to do what you wont to do. It only takes a little solder and a wire nut.
    6700 Elco Chassis
    On the “M” relay remove the green wire from #9 and the red wire from #11 and tie them together. That will keep the 24 volts from T2 secondary live to finish the cycle.
    To prevent cycling from additional balls being rolled you need to cut the orange wire coming from C2A- 14R going to PC1-28 and put it across #9 and #11 of the “M” relay.
    MP Chassis is the same except the wire from C2A- 14R is red and goes to P-2 R-139.

    I know what you mean about seeing a machine not at “O” with the light off.
    It looks like you have a broken-down lane. Hate that!!!

    SLEDDOG

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Machine not in zero position when off

      SLEDDOG,
      Did have a quick look at your option. Am I right that the pitlight will stay on with your idea(machine in practice mode with also the BE-motor off ?).If I'm wrong, can you give me a little bit more infomation how it wil look like?

      Other question:about six of my machines are running on solid state chassis'(creative) and I don't want to(and not allowed to-we are testing them)mess around in there. Is there a way to make changes at a other place(near the terminal strip or so).

      Thanks so far!

      Martin
      So it goes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Machine not in zero position when off

        Martin
        The pit light goes off but the BE motor runs with time delay as normal.
        I don’t know about the creative chassis. Don’t know how you could make it work outside the chassis…. Something to think about.
        Let me know if you come up with something.

        SLEDDOG

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Machine not in zero position when off

          Sleddog,

          Did try your suggestion yesterday, and before digging in it further I want to know if you're shure about the relay numbers you told me. Besides some SS-chassis I have MP's but they're wired a little bit different than yours I think. C2A-14R to P-2R-139 is the same. However what is a green wire on #9 on your M-relay is a red AND blue or white wire(blue or white is going to # 1 on the M relay. On # 11 I have a blue wire instead of red. Is this a modification you know about? I did try to connect the wires(without looking at the colours)but the only difference was the BE-motor not stopping.
          Looking forward to your/an answer..

          Martin
          So it goes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Machine not in zero position when off

            Sleddog & Martin,

            We have MPs and Superstars along with BOSS and Advantage and have almost the same problem that you describe. The cause is obviously related to the difference in the pinspotter "zero" and the scoring systems reading of "zero". If you come up with a better solution, GREAT, but all employees just know, if there is a pit and ball return running, to flip the lane on/off and that will cause the machine to get to zero and really turn off.

            I gave up on trying to find a better way

            Fever [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]
            I really enjoy the Simpsons. My problem is that I am starting to look like Homer. Doh!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Machine not in zero position when off

              Just a note: 82/90's and 82/70XL's, and some earlier Creative Tech Ultra Chassis' have the feature built right in. When the machine is turned off, no matter how, the pit light goes off but the table and sweep continue until at zero. Not sure, though, what happens if turned off during a distributor jam while waiting for the #9 pin.
              SLEDDOG: thanks for the info. Can't wait to try.
              LAMPIE: there's a slight difference in wiring between the ELCO (6700) chassis and the C-23 (Round Mask Plug) chassis. Don't have the info with me, but I'll get back if it affects this issue.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Machine not in zero position when off

                BowlEquip, on my 70/90XL conversions if the machine is waiting for pins while jammed it will sit forever untill cleared. I agree with training couterpersons about the machines off during cycle. After cosmic birthday parties kids would continue tossing balls while counter would shut off the pinsetters. Normally I would have to clear everything myself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Machine not in zero position when off

                  I agree with Mreessr
                  The problem is not with your machines but with your counter people. Make sure they understand how ugly it is to have a sweep (or rake) down when they turn off the lane. They should even find an incomplete rack unsightly. When I work a the desk, it is second nature for me to wait until somebody finishes their frame before I shut off the lane. Or go down and reset the machine if they quit on second ball.

                  It should be second nature to your counter people. And you can help them get there. Make a machine that's off with the sweep down or incomplete rack as unsightly to them as an unflushed toilet with logs floating in it!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Machine not in zero position when off

                    At our center the counter is placed so stupid ,they can see the lanes but not the machines. Also, if you close a lane with the computer contolled machine on/off it's allmost impossible for the counter people to get the machine on zero if customers keep throwing balls(the computer waits about 10 seconds before the lane will be off, I can't blame them if this is not going good, most of the times the counter people-mostly one person taking care of all the lanes-call off lanes is the nervous brakedown time for them too(24 lanes stopping and starting at the same time,changing money, answering phonecalls for reservations etc.)

                    Martin
                    So it goes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Machine not in zero position when off

                      SLEDDOG...lampie: Tried the chassis mod today. First, I have 7750 (C23) chassis'. They are slightly different than elco's in the power circuits, but M9&11 are the same. However, 9 had the red wire going to C2A-35U, and 11 had the greenn wire from the T1 (that's right, T1 supplies 24v). Should be the same, just being switcched by the relay. On 11 was another wire that supplies 24v to the back end relay. (That's one of the differences). So, now, after doing the mod, I lost the BE. Probably need to keep that BE coil wire connected to the T1 green. But, it still stopped all table and sweep functions when turned off, plus it went into continous cycle. ???
                      PS..the orange wire number for the cycle, if interested, is 128.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Machine not in zero position when off

                        Bowl,
                        Just twist together all the wires that come off M9 and M11.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Machine not in zero position when off

                          Thanks Jonas! Actually figured that out today. But there's one problem left.. The entire power distribution system for the M & M2 relays is extremely different from Elco chassis', but I finally figured out that with C23's there's no place to attach the cycle wire on the M relay. M8, the normally closed side of M9-M11 is needed for 24v to M2-3, thru which H1 is powered when the machine is turned off. Tried it without the connection, but the back end would keep running. Needed to keep the T1 24v on M11 and the heater on M8. So the machine now finishes cycle, but cycle can still be initiated while off. Better than nothing.
                          Does anyone know how I can get prints or charts for The 7750 C23 chassis? The latest 6730 print isn't even up to date.
                          Thanks!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Machine not in zero position when off

                            [QUOTE]Originally posted by lampie:

                            Other question:about six of my machines are running on solid state chassis'(creative) and I don't want to(and not allowed to-we are testing them)mess around in there. Is there a way to make changes at a other place(near the terminal strip or so).

                            Forget about my question about my Creative Chassis... They allready finish the cycle before stopping(the only minus is that I have only 5 out of 10 chassis still running after having them for a test for 1 month- the ones that are still running are working ok, but....).

                            My try to get the other chassis on zero when off is still not working.

                            Martin
                            So it goes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Machine not in zero position when off

                              Lampie: Still having a problem with some of your chassis"? Yesterday I posted some observations and explanations regarding my trying to get this to work. To elaborate, SS C-23 Chassis' (round mask and BPP/APS plugs) have totally different M and M2 relay wiring than SS Elco's. There's even 110v going through the C2A plug for CB terminals A & B in the back end ccontrol box.
                              In the C23, M-8 (normally closed side) is used to supply 24v to the back end time delay heater (H) through M2-3 after the machine is turned off. The wire from M2-3 to M-8 must be there, and the green transformer wire must be on M-11 to get the 24v to M-8 (normally closed side of the relay) or the heater will not turn on...back end will stop immediately.
                              Do not hook wire from M2-3 to constant 24v...this will start heater immediately and also shut down the back end immediately when machine is turned off.
                              So, I hooked all the wires from M-9 aand M-11 together, attached them to M-11, and skipped the cycle wire step. Machine can still be cycled when off (during time delay). This will eliminate 75% of machines not at zero. Better than nothing.
                              E-mail me if you're still stumped.
                              Thanks to Jamie @ Stahl's for helping me through this!!

                              Comment

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