Chassis pins and sockets

[8270king]

I am very big into PM. Last summer I went through all the chassis (ss) and repaired all the pins and sockets and the hardware.

Here is the problem:
1. We are high lineage but in the past month I have still had some corroded and arcing pins and sockets. How do I get them to not burn up?

When the pin is bad I do replace the corresponding socket also.

The ones that burn up are on the sweep circuit. I know these operate twice as often as a table circuit but burning up a couple times a year is rediculous.

I need an electrical guru's opinion!!!!

mechanical king

[Kat]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

King:

There are a couple of things to look at here.

Make sure you are getting a good crimp with the wire and socket/pins. Since we're dealing with stranded wire, make sure all strands are in place...with the amp load, the wire cannot be any smaller than what it is. Make sure the pins have the flared ends in place...this helps keep the pin from backing out when the C1 plug is connected.

If it's on 1 machine, check for any binds that might be causing the S motor to draw slightly more amperage.
But, if you back-date to some time ago, you will see a thread about the right crimpers to use. These can make all the difference in the world. While I know some use other tools, that's fine. Everyone has their own techniques with his own tools.

But, I could be wrong...

Kat

[Coors]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

Quote:]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by 82/70 king:
The ones that burn up are on the sweep circuit.!!!!

</font>[/QUOTE]

been there..done that..got the Tee shirt to prove it!. Unfortunately i dont know what to do about it.

im waiting to hear a suggestion also!!!

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

King,
a couple of things I now of that waste terminals.
-Hot and neutral reversed at the Russel stoll plug.
-1 hot to the pit motor.
-S and T contactors pitted.
-Weak capacitors.
-Bad S and T resistors.
-Pitted motor switches.
-Crusty fried neutral jumper (under the chassis in the wire way ts-17 to 1a1 I think).

Make sure the motor and contactor points are good. They can toast your new terminals.
When you put the new terminals in did you cut the wire back until you had shiny bright strands?

On that problem machine, disconnect power at the main breaker panel that feeds power to the Russel Stoll plug. Then you can take apart the plug and socket and check the condition of the wires. If the wires are brittle you should cut them back until you get fresh wire.

Good luck,
Jonas

[8270king]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

Guys,

I appreciate the suggestions.

1. I have rebuilt all russel stoll last fall.

2. I own 3 sets of the correct crimpers.

3. I always cut the wire back to shiny.

4. All new contactors in the chassis.

5. All solid state relays instead of mechanical switches.

6. All my wiring is original.

7. My crimp jobs are perfect.

Remember I have carte blanche with parts budget!

My thinking:

1. Take all the s motor &amp; be motor power wires out of the c1 plugs (these tend to get crispy 1st) and go across the house &amp; modify
the connection with a twist lock plug or two coming out of the chassis mating it to wiring coming from the term strip. Two twist lock plugs would cover 6 wires. Usually I think that would take care of it.

ps. my be motor wires already have been split into 2 with a chair term.

king

[Lampie]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

Maybe a showdown 220 volts against 110 volts is more interesting than A.M.F. against Brunswick....In the netherlands we have 220 volts(raised to 230 volts even lately) and thanks to that much less problems(lower current). But that won't help you now...

May be ist's a good idea to double wire al the motor connections from the Terminal strip to the CA-1 plug(There are some unused connections left on the CA-1 plug),a bit simular to the idea the motorrelays are wired to split the current. Didn't try this, no need for it, but maybe it's a good solution for you.

Martin

[felix]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

While we are on this subject, has anyone had problems with mixing( gold &amp; silver pins) and making good contact?

[BowlEquip]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

I concur with Jonas, especially on two topics: Capacitors. They are not that expensive and probably worth going across the house with all new ones. Secondly, if your neutral jumper between TS17 and TS1A1 is crusty, either replace it with two (or one heavier one), or move your motor loads to the side that's connected directly to the main R&amp;S receptacle. It's a known fact that AMF used to put the motor neutrals on the second (jumped) terminal. This may reduce your motor loads, especially the sweep, which turns on and off three times every ball delivery.

[len marsden]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

hi guys,
over here in oz we move the be relay out of the chassis and put it in the back control box. this removes the hvac away from the c1 plug, you only have to run the 24v coil wires thru the plug then.
i currently work on 30's but have been wondering whether it is possible to move the sw and ta contactors into either the front channel or if not enough room into a insulated box mounted near the motor.
what do you think?
len.

[Lampie]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

Normaly it's me who's asking strange questions, but now I don't understand the reason of changing wires(sw and ta) in the channel or near the motor(are you talking about 30 or 70 machines)and why...

Allways like new good ideas so whats up..

Martin

[8270king]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

I am going to tear into the wire way tomorrow. First thing I will check is the jumper. How do I check to see if the hot and neutral are going to the right place. My machines were in Japan and brought back and put in in 74. Maybe this will help.

king

This problem has plagued these machines for a long time! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

[Lampie]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

Len,

After reading it again I feel stupid and I think I know what you mean: your not talking about 30's and you want to get the high voltage of the motors(and ofcourse the high current) completly out of your CA-1 plug. Ofcourse nothing is impossible, changing this is even very possible but it 's nice to put something on paper for the next one who's working after you. Having high voltage on places you don't expect them can be dangerous!

Allways when I'm changing something in wirering I take care that a chassis can be changed from one to another machine. In your case this won't be possible so you will have to change everything at once and never take a chassis from another center again.

Good luck anyway

Martin

[BowlEquip]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

King: Find the white wire coming from the R&amp;S Recceptacle. It will be a heavier gauge wire than the rest. Follow it to the right end of the right terminal strip under the chassis. It will be attached to either TS 1A1 or TS17. These are the two strips handling all your neutrals. They are jumped together with a 16 gauge single white wire (short). Back at the receptacle, the heavier white wire should be on terminal #2. The Black wire (HOT) should be on #1. The ground is at the biggest pin. If your older machines don't have the green ground wire screwed directly to the machine frame, do so now.
The other end of the black should be on TS18.
Now, going backwards, also check the R&amp;S plug for the same. Then go further back and make sure that the white wire is connected to white. etc., in the electrical box that the R&amp;S cord drops from. Keep on going all the way to the fuse panel on the wall, making sure white is on the neutral bus strip and black is connected to the circuit breaker or fuse.
Good Luck!

[rrev]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

Burning the terminals on S and T contacts in the C1 is much less common than the BE terminals. Lots of guys double the BE terminals, and a few double the S and T terminals there in the C1. And the mod Len is talking about - moving the BE relay to the rear control box is not uncommon. But I'd be hesitant about doing similar to S and T contactors and putting them under the wireway. They are hiding under there, and I think they're the sort of things you need to be eyeballing from time to time.

Back to the terminals. How are they burning out? Where the wire comes in? Or at the mating surface with its opposite?

If it's where the wire comes into the terminal, there has been some great advice already.

If the terminals are burning at the mating surface, look at all the things that have been suggested - caps, resistors, neutrals etc. Then replace both male and female together. If one starts to corrode (due to arcing) and go black, the other won't be far behind. Always do both.

Maybe try the gold pins. A few guys use them on the high current connections. Especially the BE. It can be just as effective as doubling up, because gold conducts so much smoother than the tin-plate.

Lastly, do not mix gold and silver.

That's about it. I've exhausted my knowledge on the subject.

Ray

[ February 13, 2001: Message edited by: rrev ]

[John_Galt]

Re: Chassis pins and sockets

Holy Moly! Glad I don't have to deal with these kinds of problems!
Maybe this should be a new program on FOX: "When Wiring Attacks" or "Good Wires Go Bad."

My rule is: Don't F with it! If it goes bad, replace it with OEM. Especially with the electrical stuff! Electrical is definitely my weak point - I don't dare mess with altering it!

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

But if you have the electrical know-how, bully for you!