Tweet
The owner of our center is considering changing some of our kicker roller ball return systems for either PBL'S or Humpbacks. He is reluctant to go with humpbacks since they have only been in exsistance for abut 3 years. I would like to hear what you guys think are the pros and cons of both the pbl's and the humpbacks.
-
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
Hi,
We have humpbacks, and love them. My brother has pbl's and loves those. I have had very few problems with them after installation and any I had were solved almost immediately by lifelongs's techs.
I like the fact that there is very few parts involved. Added bonus now is belt is quarenteed for 10 years. We got some when they were real new, and they even replaced the one belt that I got before the quarentee went into effect. I have seen the pbl's in my brothers center and they look like a lot of moving parts and hassles. With the humpback all we did was install and go.
I think either one does the job, we have had only one ball call on the humpbacks in the last two weeks and that was a problem with the paddle shock. My brother says he only has about one call a week on 24 lanes of pbls, I only have 6 lanes out of 12 installed, but plan to do the rest, getting tired of kicker problems.
Ron -
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
Both systems are good but the humpy are better. We have all but one pair converted and we maybe get one pin in the door per week. To retrofit the pbl takes longer due to the ratchet drive being mounted to the kickback plate. Humpy can be installed in 5 hours after you 1st one. Ask Ed Fox. He is in love with their sales dept. lol
kingComment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
What's the magic to keeping pins out of the doors on the humpbacks? I'm using a small pulley (which isn't slipping) and have used every rudder shock that I know of. Also their "winged" paddle". I still get a pin in the door about every day.Comment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
How old are your humps. Ours have a y that bolts behind the lift arm that eliminated the pin in door problem. I use the vantage rudder shock. I use probably 3/4 the amount of tension available. I also run a spring out of the idler connected just like a kicker would (around ball lift shaft) for more tension on the belt. A kicker spring works well with the end opened up a little with channellocks.
king
[ February 14, 2001: Message edited by: 82/70 king ]Comment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
FixIt: The old oil-filled rudder link works great with kickers...ONLY. Since, with the humpback and any PBL, the ball enters the exit downhill, and any pins have to be pushed out uphill, the hydraulic doesn't hack the mustard. The only links strong enough are the spring-loaded ones, and the only reliable one that has held up for me is the AMF one. It has bigger springs than Vantage.
But wait! Lifelong is coming out with a new design light ball sensor, whose slip/push mechanism is completely contained within the crank pulley. Very simple, so I hear, and very reliable. Give them a call. (Works with existing 1/4" wide belts only)Comment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
I just installed 2 humpbacks about 3 weeks ago and they seems to be working fine. I did have some trouble with the shock that they sent (kicking a light ball out) put my old shock back on with a kicker belt (it's a little longer)and have not had a problem since. We called life long about it and they told us that it would not work that way, but like I said no more ball calls on that pair of lanes. The shock that was sent is from vantage life long said that is who the deal with. Well any way the humpback is alot better than the kickers if your place is putting a ton of oil out there.
kropyComment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
I'm probably going to be in the minority here, but here goes...
I've had no problems with my PBLs here. I think they're fine, but don't know much of the Humpback system.
King: Can the Humpbacks be used with the existing PBL light-ball-sensor? I've got them here and have no problems with pin-in exits. From what I see, it looks like the Humpback uses the old style rudder shocks?
Is this true? For me, the light ball sensor does a fantastic job of kicking out pins in exits, while allowing the pu$$y balls to go through.
Just curious, would like to learn a little more of the new stuff out there.
But, I could be wrong...
Kat :p"Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"
--KatComment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
Kat,
Yes they can be used with the light ball sensors. That would be the ultimate system. The paddle shock cannot always kick pins out due to pushing them uphill. Early PBL are the ones with the most light ball sensor problems. Later installations or if the have had good maintenance have no problems. I personally favor the light ball sensor over the shock system. After they are fine tuned there are never ANY pins in the exit as you know!
kingComment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
Kat: King is right on. The later light ball sensors from AMF, when working right, are truly the best and are a great companion to the humpback. If you have the older sensors, those that came with machines built between 1976 and 1980 (serials approximately 133000 to 146000), you may want to upgrade them next time you have them out. The differences are in the cam assembly support (small bracket added) and the power cams (new ones are one-piece instead of three pieces welded together). Many have also put a slightly longer roll pin in the power cams.
By the way, Ive built up several sensors with all Enviro Bushings (self-lubricating), since you're not supposed to oil the cam area. Work great!!Comment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
Hmmm, Interesting...didn't know that about early/late model light ball sensors. With that info, I now know I have late models. All my rudder cams are one piece and my machines were built in '86.
I like that idea of the lubeless bushings in the cam area. Worth some peeking into.
But, currently I'm using with my PBLs the Grey ball lift belts from A-1 (???) that I get from a local distributor. I've had great success with them in my PBLs with LBS, until recently when we changed to Reactor Oil. Getting alot of YoYos.
But, pins in the exit are non-existent here.
But, I could be wrong...
Kat :p"Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"
--KatComment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
Kat,
Have you put the stahl's lift rod cover on?
It eliminates yoyo's. It slips right over the rods unlike "b" lift rod cover.
kingComment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
Kat: better still, although a little pricey, are lifelong's rocket rails, the covers that attach without removing the rails. There's a topic somewhere in this forum, wherein one reply describes these rails very well. I think it's worth the $$.
About Reactor: I changed to it because of head depletion problems. Kept the units down toward the pins, finished buffing at 42', and never had yo-yo's. Maybe the trick is to load up the heads a little more and trim down the taper at the end. Just a thought. Good luck!!Comment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
All right guys, we are going for it. ordered aour first humpback yesterday. If things go according to plans we should have in by this time next week. I thought it would be a good idea to put it on the pair were all balls are slow getting in (but they all so get in)and sometimes launches 6#ers out over the lane insted of on the downsweep.Comment
-
Re: PBL'S or HUMPBACKS
Dennis -- Put it on the lane that gives you the most ball calls, you wont regret it.
RonComment
Comment