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  • pbl lift probs.

    hi guys,
    i've spent a lot of time,like a lot of you, trying to overcome the yo-yo effect with the pbl.
    recently i reassembled our spare lift assy.
    and fitted a belt that we bought about 2 years ago but we changed because it just wouldn't pick up balls. i fitted this belt to one of my modified lift tubes and fitted it to the machine.
    all i can say is, if you've got a crap belt it doesn't matter what you do to the lift assy., rails or covers you won't get those balls up. we tried every known substance to wash the belt with no success and also we sanded the belt so much we got through to the webbing and still it wouldn't pick up.
    consequently i pulled out the unit and fitted an old orange belt and haven't had any problems since.

    i called into one of my old centres the other day which is running kickers to check the "difference" between the kicker lift and the pbl. i used a swing needle angle meter and checked the angle of the lift assy. and the up rails.
    the kicker lift sits in the brackets at 50deg. my pbl assy. sits at 55 deg. the angle change is due to the lower bracket being slightly longer than the original position kicking the bottom of the lift in towards the rails. i thought there would have been a greater difference between the two, possibly 10- 15 degrees not 5.
    the rails were within 3 deg. of each other and this is probably due to the positioning of the backend.

    can anyone tell me why on the kicker lift assy. the shock absorber is used to adjust the height/ball clearance and the top bumpers don't get used for adjustment. yet the pbl shockie is fixed and we use the bumpers for the adjustment? i am going to convert my spare lift brackets to a kicker configuration and see if it will fit and work out what the difference is. has anyone tried this?
    maybe we just believe amf engineers new what they were doing when they designed the pbl!

    regards,
    len.
    Regards,

    Len.

  • #2
    Re: pbl lift probs.

    Len:
    I too had a problem with yo-yos with the PBL. there are three ways to fix the problem.
    1-switch to the smallest drive clutches. I belive 4"(?). Then, light balls leave the track at the top of the return rails [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]
    2-I drilled a second set of holes in the new lower bracket as close to the first set of holes as possible. If you do this, adjust the lift so as to have as much tension at the bottom as possible. You can also use the large drive clutches.
    3-buy the lower adjustable lower lift brackets from Lifelong. This is the easiest, but you have to spend money [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]
    Let us know how you make out!
    toon 30s
    Gene Simmons for president!!!

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    • #3
      Re: pbl lift probs.

      On option 2, the second set of holes goes above the originals. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]
      Gene Simmons for president!!!

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      • #4
        Re: pbl lift probs.

        If you are having yo-yo's on a PBL, check the tension of the lift belt. It might be off. Adjustment accomplished by using spanner wrench on the spring.

        Another thing would be to know where it is yo-yoing. Towards the bottom at the ratchet assembly or in the middle of the lift.

        I have seen many centers where the ball lift is up to high and the ball lift is too far away from the uprails to make good pressure contact with the belt.
        "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

        --Kat

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        • #5
          Re: pbl lift probs.

          We covered our up-tracks with Brunswick liftrod cover. (Orange, heavy duty) When it starts to wear at the bottom, you can twist it to a new surface. When it splits you only have to replace the bottom 6-12 inches. As it wears it gets more and more tacky. A 50 ft. roll will cover 5 1/2 lanes
          We have had it on for more than 5 years (haevy lineage) with zero calls and minimal maintenance.

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          • #6
            Re: pbl lift probs.

            I feel that inverted is on the right track (n0 pun intended). The purpose of the lift belt is to cause the ball to turn or spin. The purpose of the rails are to grip the ball so the ball can "walk" up the rail to the top of the lift. If the ball spins the belt is doing its job. If the ball does not asscend the lift then the track covers are not doing their job. I have the original AMF hard black rubber covers for the first 6 inches then brunswick beige covers another 3 feet then finish with th AMF covers. I have kickers and once the ball starts up it keeps going. Good luck guys

            Mike

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            • #7
              Re: pbl lift probs.

              Shorter lane conditionig programs are the only thing that ive found that fix the problem instantly
              Greg

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              • #8
                Re: pbl lift probs.

                Stahl’s Seventy’s has a beige thick rail cover that works great. It is also easy to install. I have converted six kicker lifts to PBL’s with no problem.

                Marvin

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                • #9
                  Re: pbl lift probs.

                  Stahls is the best lift rod cover out bar non. I had them on all my pbls in a 32 lane center two years ago and their still working like they were new.

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                  • #10
                    Re: pbl lift probs.

                    ROSIN...is there anything it cant do???

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                    • #11
                      Re: pbl lift probs.

                      Original Post: "The purpose of the lift belt is to cause the ball to turn or spin. The purpose of the rails are to grip the ball so the ball can "walk" up the rail to the top of the lift. If the ball spins the belt is doing its job. If the ball does not asscend the lift then the track covers are not doing their job."

                      GPS hit the nail on the head when it comes to belts and lift rod covers. Financially, there are other options to the above problem.

                      Unfortunately, the AMF lift rod covers were big during short oil. But with today's demand for lane conditioner, if your backends aren't up to par, you will pay in one way or another. Example, when Defense lane oil was first introduced on the tour, the first practice session produced 800 ball calls.

                      If you want to keep the AMF rail covers instead of purchasing new ones because they can be expensive, you can shim your rails closer to your lift belt at the bottom of the rails. This is one heck of a lot of work since the bolts haven't been broken since your installation.

                      The Brunswick lift rod covers are a feasible option, but you need to put them on with an air compresser and they can be difficult to spin once a flat spot has been created. I do, however, reccommend Brunswick white lift rod covers for Spectrum ball returns.

                      The Stahl's lift rod covers are by far the best. If your rails are clean, they will slip right down. To do the whole rail is about $140 a pair. Many mechanics will cut these covers in half and put the Stahl's covers on the bottom with the AMF black on the top. Note. If your PBL's are not adjusted properly, a bowling ball can sit at the transition point of the two covers and your lift belt will burn a flat spot on a bowling ball. To remedy this, make sure the compression spring is no more than 4 inches.

                      You want your bumpers as high as you can possibly get them. In order to get them up, your split shafts must be adjusted properly to get the lower end of the PBL as close to the bowling ball as possible. Once you get it into its most forward position, as long as your control link is square, you can now lift the bumpers up high to attain the 1/4" gap between the lower PBL sheave and the ball. I do not reccommend the smaller clutch pulleys; they wreak havoc on light balls unless you have adjustable rudder drive sheaves.

                      Last word. Purchase the Stahl's rail covers and keep the old lift belts. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.

                      [ June 25, 2001: Message edited by: Mike Stalker ]
                      Pinspotters do not break down when they are not running!

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                      • #12
                        Re: pbl lift probs.

                        Mike,

                        I am a Stahl's lift rod cover fan also....they do work well.

                        You need to change your location....
                        Alaska is a long way from Phoenix!

                        Jerry

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                        • #13
                          Re: pbl lift probs.

                          just to add one thing I hope you don't have any of the blue vantage ball lift belt because they will cause some of that yo-yoing the best I've found is the old orange or green or even the black amf belt if the need arises but definatly get ridof the blue belts because they will give you the blues in the long run. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]

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