pin idles on rear roller

Hiya Guys....

We get pin idles on the carpet just in front of the rear roller on a few machines (some worse than others) - 1 particular lane sometimes had 6 pins idling at once !! Problem was fixed on this lane with a new carpet , but I can't replace carpets on the other lanes mainly because they are not worn & can't justify spending money on carpets.

I've tried raising the bounce plate , tried raising the angle of the carpet guide , but made no difference.....

Any thoughts ????


Jon

[TheGMan143]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

A lot of times it's caused by a cracks in the plows... take a look around where the head of the pin is rolling against the plow...you may find a dent or crack near it.

If it is cracked, use a c-clamp to level the cracked edges, build it up with weld (MIG is preferred) to fix the cracked side...weld the crack on the front and the back. Then grind off the weld on the front so it is smooth.

You can try lowering the rear carpet guides a bit (the guide looks like a metal shelf that's located just about under the cushion on the right and left sideplates. We lowered ours by elongating the bolt holes with a carbide burr on an air die grinder. It took care of a lot of the 'idlers'...

Re: pin idles on rear roller

The pins actually idle in front of the rear roller & don't actually touch the plows...We raised the carpet guides to try & get the pins to move back towards the pinwheel as there is already a bit of a 'dip' between r'roller & rear bounce plate....If I lower the carpet guide , I think it would make the problem worse....

I think that the carpets are stretched which is causing the problem , but as I said , I can't really replace them & it's not a major drama with the pin idles - just annoying.

Any ideas welcome though

jon

[8270king]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

When I tear out a pit or change a carpet. I toss the springs on the front roller hinges if they are over 2 years old. This keeps your carpet at maximum stretch and also make sure your carpets dont "stall" when the machines are turned on. This might help your problem. I almost never have a pin idling as you describe.

Jerry

[masternut]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

Good point King..
Also if your bearings are froze up or binding it will not allow your springs to return and make your carpet tight.We have gone to the greaseless bushings now when we do a pit.Good results

Peanut

[Mark Anderson]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

Quote:]Originally posted by Jon Boy:
We get pin idles on the carpet just in front of the rear roller on a few machines (some worse than others) Jon[/QUOTE]


We have similar problems , but usually only 1 or 2 pins idling on the rear carpet & not even touching the ploughs .

Our problem is 10 Month old OIL SOAKED pins that are well overdue for replacement & oil on the carpets .

We religiously clean our Carpets , Ploughs & just about every other part of the setter Daily due to the high FPS & heavy oil patterns at our centre .

But the oil soaked pins "SEEM" to be the problem .

Try collecting 20 "Good" Pins out of all the other setters ( If you can find 20 good ones , I know I'd be pressed in our 24 laner to find 20 good pins [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] )

Give the pins a good ole clean up with Metho or Spot approach cleaner & load them into your WORSE M/C for pin idle

Also give the carpet a GOOD CLEAN whilst it's running with an dry approach cloth .

You may be surprised at the results .

I'd be interested to hear if that fixes the problem [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

I'll add:
Check the bushing/spacer that goes into the rear support lever. They like to disintegrate. And the rubber inserts on the rear supports wear out after 10 or 20 years [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] . If any are worn, the rear roller will set higher inside the pit.
I have a few machines where a pin sets there and rolls. I never tried to figure out why. I haven't had any problems because of it.

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

I bet if you increased the friction of the plow where the head of the pin touches it would torque the pin into the elevator??? Any of you guys running leather on your plows? Do you get spinning pins?

[TheGMan143]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

The only ones I get 'idlers' on are the machines that aren't running the AMF "bumpy" belt... the AMF's have fat spots in the carpet that make the pin bounce over them, and they get pushed into the pit... the carpets without the bumps are where the idlers happen.

I've never run leather on the plows, but I'll assume it works... I have vinyl or urethane-faced cushion facing strips on a couple of mine... I ordered cushion facings on closeout one time, and I got the velcro-backed ones that have no holes in them. I bought a bunch, since they were an extreme steal (like $7 or $8 apiece)...Some of them I pulled the velcro off and punched holes in them with a gasket cutter, then I just used them as regular facings. I had one that had a slice in it, so I cut 3" strips from it and shaped them like the angle of the plows, then glued them on with Weldbond. Not only did it cut down on the pin idling, but I've noticed less cracking of the plows, and they're a lot quieter since the pins don't bang directly into the metal. Once I get a couple more cheap facings, I'll do the rest of them.

[ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: TheGMan143 ]

[8270king]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

I havent bought a cushion facing in years. I cut mine out of old carpets. I secure the facing by the top rivets in the middle (2), and the 2 upper end rivets. The other rivts are in just hidden behind the facing to aavoid wear and breakage.

Jerry

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

Quote:]Originally posted by TheGMan143:
Not only did it cut down on the pin idling, but I've noticed less cracking of the plows, and they're a lot quieter since the pins don't bang directly into the metal. TheGMan143 [/QUOTE]

Ahaaa... I thought it would. But I don't like the idea of it being quieter. I mean, how are you going to know you have a DJ when your tippin back a few in the bar???

[knuckles]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

Jimmy Jam, It would not make a difference to most counter people anyway. (Hear what, I didn'tknow that was my job, whats a pin jam).Why is it you can have 8, 12, 16, or 32 lanes and maybe 2 lanes running and counter help will do nothing with all that banging going on. Then if you (mechanic) is not there the counter help won't sheet it and mechanic misses a call.

Enough venting.

Happy holidays.

larry

[knuckles]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

I agree with the king. You need to change those front roller springs every few years and keep an eye on those rubber support (half moon shape) that mount inside the front and rear roller flanges. They wear out and cause all sorts of problems when that happens.

Larry [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[TheGMan143]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

Quote:]Originally posted by Jimmy Jam:


Ahaaa... I thought it would. But I don't like the idea of it being quieter. I mean, how are you going to know you have a DJ when your tippin back a few in the bar???[/QUOTE]

Usually the loud "PING!" of a pin bouncing off of the distributor support is a telltale sign... That and the incessant noise caused by the bowler leaning on the 'fix-it button' and bitchin loudly. But hey, couple more of those mugs in the bar, and you won't even worry about that... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Honestly, though, the strips I have on there only cover where the pins normally bounce off when they come flying out from under the cushion...most of the upper part of the plow is still exposed.

[the old dirt man]

Re: pin idles on rear roller

GMAN, I don't think I ever ran across a AMF bumpy
with fat spots [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] can you give the part #
and what color is it.thanks CRUD