How to stop excessive deadwood calls

[AmfPro]

Hi All, We have had an ongoing problem since we installed Qubice with our 70C's. The machine just cycles too slow. At installation of Qubica, cushion cycle switches were disconnected and machines were cycling from the camera. With camera machine cycle values set to lowest or quickest possible setting, the deadwood calls were unacceptable-about 700 that 1st week. So, we hook the cushion start switches back up and it eliminates most of them but not all. All of our sweeps are adjusted properly. Is the only answer to this problem electronic triggering???
We are curretly running Brunswick glow pins with orange label. It seems as though the drier the lanes get, the more DW we have. The only thing that I have considered doing is coating the deck and flat gutters with a heavy top coat and then sanding the hell out of it so pins can't slide on it. My supervisor is considering re-positioning the cushions to try and stop the pins from deflecting or bouncing off of them. Any ideas welcomed and appteciated!!!!!!!

[8270 pinspotter]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

What kind of cushions do you have? The Vantage one piece deals are alot harder than the OEM and bounce more pins around. I think triggering could be an option, but I have it and with the Vantage cushions I still get some dead wood infront of the sweeps. The cushion switch should cycle the machine fast enough to prevent most dead wood calls but you will probably never totally eliminate them. Also, what do you mean by repositioning the cushions? I only know of one way to install install a cushion.

[Kat]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

What we've done to eliminate deadwood calls was to move our electronic triggering to behind the downsweeps and set the DIP switches to "No Delay".

As soon as the IR beam is broken, the pinsetter cycles immediately. Works great on 70s. The same principle is incorporated into the newer 8800 Gold Series machines...since they don't have cushion switches.

After doing this, we get many pins that rebound from the pit and wind up slamming into the back of the rake/sweep, but never onto the lane causing a deadwood call.

One word of caution though, by doing this you will need to incorporate a "rake down" switch by either mercury or micro to prevent machine cycling on the back sweep or a sweep run. Any questions, let me know.

Good luck.

[8270 pinspotter]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

Kat,
I have my triggering behind the downsweeps and don't have anything to prevent a cycle from the sweep. With my triggering if the beam is broken for more than two seconds the machine will not cycle. I have the XL triggering.

[TheGMan143]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

I understand what you guys are saying about the triggering systems, but I don't think adding a trigger is going to help much. He has a Qubica scoring system, and it uses a fairly fruity triggering system... there are two IR beams across the lane, the units are mounted on the capping, as part of the camera assembly, about 4 feet back from the sweep. They work like a police VASCAR system... the ball breaks each beam in turn, and the computer calculates how fast the ball was moving, and uses that information to time the cycle of the machine, basically to give the ball enough time to get behind the sweep. So a faster ball will cause a faster cycle-start than a slower one. That variable time delay relies on very strict positioning of the IR sensors. Only thing I can think of is that maybe the camera is mounted too far up the capping, the sensors are misadjusted, or the delay is set too long (I'm not sure if that can be adjusted).

Pop the dust cover off your camera, and take a look at the IR sensors and the reflectors... On the back of the sensor, there is an indicator light. With an unbroken beam, the indicator should glow a very dim red. When the beam is broken, it should light brightly. It's been my experience that if one of the sensors isn't set or working properly, the scoring system uses a default time setting that is longer, to protect the sweep from getting hit by the ball. To adjust the sensors, slightly loosen the four small screws on top of the sensor, then move the sensor body around (it uses an eyeball-type mounting) until the light on the back goes dim and stays that way, then retighten the screws. Walk around or step on and off the track capping to make sure that the adjustment holds (sometimes your weight on the cap will move it slightly and give you a false setting position). If you still get a broken-beam indicator light, look at the reflectors to make sure they aren't dirty or damaged. Replace the dust cover and test it out.

[AmfPro]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

GMan, All IR sensors are adjusted properly and cycle values are set at lowest/fastest possible setting according to qubica setup/installation sheet. This setting nets approx 600 to 700 Deadwoods a week in my center. We hooked cushion cycle switches back up, in parallel to the camera cycle signal wire. Now chassis can get cycle signal from either camera or cushion miceoswitch, whichever is faster on any speed/weight of ball.
Still average 65 to 70 deadwoods a week with this combo.

I do think that electronic triggering is about the only feasible solution I can come up with. Maybe parallel IR triggering to what we currently use, giving chassis 3 possible cycle options. I would make electronic IR triggering only able to cycle with sweep at 0 degree position with a bruns style cam and switch like the old AS80 scoring system on 70's. Any one know of any company producing a cost effective solution for this problem. 8270 pinspotter has the best solution yet. Jim

[8270king]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

Install bowltronics triggering at the flat gutter / transition block linw with no delay. Sensors behind the dropsweep.

Jerry

[Coors]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

go into camera properties and shorten your delay until desirable. 15 is the default just make sure a ball traveling less than 2mph can also make it under.

i did that myself once. adults could beat the sweep no problem (my 82-70 looked like GS's. but saturday morn i got a phone call. . . . .LOL

[Coors]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

actually if you have "conquerer" the delay setting is on the "pinsetter properties" tab. is everything back to normal yet Pro?

[AmfPro]

Re: How to stop excessive deadwood calls

Coors, Its been better this week. The DW's seem to come in waves of a bunch, then only a few.
I posted before that we had set the cycle speed, which is in pinspotter properties, to lowest possible workable setting. What I mean by workable is that a slow light weight ball can still make it without running into sweep. I wish there was a way to adjust cycle values in real time without resetting the VDB. I could drop to zero on adult leagues and switch back to 15 on junior and senior leagues. 15 is default I believe from qubica, and its too slow for most of our leagues. I guess IR triggering behind dropsweep and disconnecting camera cycle signal to chassis is the only way out of this sorry situation at present. We had a fair amount of DW before we got qubica, when we had accuscore 2, but we put in new freestanding masking units akong with qubica and the front end helper kids were taken off of DW calls for fear of kicking cameras or tripping IR sensors and cycling machine on DW calls.

If you guys see another alternative I may be overlooking, let me know whenever you think of it

Take care, AMFPro