MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

[Guest]

I HAVE BEEN A MECHANIC FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW. I DID NOT THINK IT WAS POSSIBLE TO BE STUMPED, BUT HERE I AM ASKING THE MEMBERS OF BOWL TECH FOR HELP. I HAVE A TABLE THAT IS OFF TO THE LEFT ABOUT AN INCH. I AM FAMILIAR WITH THE NORMAL ADJUSTMENTS. I HAVE EVEN TRIED SOME DRASTIC ONES. TO ME THERE IS NO ADJUSTMENT TO GO FROM LEFT TO RIGHT. I PUT MY FLAGS DOWN, LOOSENED THE TABLE SUPPORTS, BUT THAT IS NOT THE ADJ. I NEED. THE PINS ARE OFF SPOT AN INCH TO THE LEFT. I CAN NOT MOVE THE INDIVIDUAL CUPS BECAUSE OF THE X FRAME, BUT YOU ALREADY NEW THAT. I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR ANY SUGGESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.

THANKS,

BOWLING GUY

[Mr. 800-R]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

Have you compared that machine against one that is spotting pins correctly.

If the A frame is off to one side you would have to loosen:

1. Ball exit....including downsweep.
2. A-B frame bolts unless they are broken off or loose already.
3. Monkey bars.
4. Kickback mount bolts.

I would move it by a floor jack and a piece of plywood.

You could lower the table to make it easier for the floor jack to reach. Use respot mode.

Get some help too!

JMO

[TheGMan143]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

I agree with 800... drop the table on a machine that's spotting correctly, and take a look at the clearances & such.

Sounds like more than a simple respotting of the cups is needed... 1" of movement on the entire spotting pattern indicates a problem...even if you could move the cups far enough to set the pins back on spot, you'd only be putting a band-aid on the original problem.

-Take a look at the table arm pillow blocks at the front, make sure nothing is broken or obviously shifted out of place.
-Check the machine for any obvious shifting of the whole top-end (gap between machines wider/thinner than average, mountings/frame out of square.
-Go through the table and table post mounts with a fine-tooth comb... look for cracks, loose fasteners, and check that the posts and mounts are square. Especially the posts... ours have elongated holes for adjustment that run front-to-back about 1-2"...if the left one is set to the extreme rear, and the right one is set to the extreme front, it will actually 'rotate' the table enough to cause a problem very similar to what you're describing... spot a rack and take a look at the difference between how far out the 7 or 10 pin is in relation to the head pin. If the table is rotated out of line, the off-spot gap will get worse from back to front (7 pin 1/4-1/2" off, 4 pin 1/2"-3/4" off, 2 pin 3/4-1" off, and 1 pin 1"-1 1/4" off)

Good luck...

[deadwood_dup1]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

I have an extreme adjustment for you. Fortunatly ive only had to do this once and it was to pass ABC. Here goes and try at your own risk!

1. Remove Shazam Rod "Tie Link Rod"
2. Remove cups 3-5-6-9-10.
3. Remove your outer lever (070-002-603)
4. Take the spacer (070-002-620) Off
5. Take that spacer to your bench grinder. Grind
till its about 1/2 size.
6. Replace and you should be close to your desired placement.

Repeat of all the left side and the 5. Your right side should be able to move over to the right.

Like I said. Its an extreme procedure, I had to do it to pass ABC one time during city tournament because some pre-madonna's were complaining. It worked! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] Good Luck.

Deadwood :p

[vinson]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

Dependine on what # machine the problem is you can get some adj. by adding a piece of wood between the catwalks, this will shift the machine over somewhat, loosen the common parts in the ball lift area so there is some give, you know the ramp, buckle bolts, ball wipe brackets. Also the front spotting rod holding the #1 cup you can shift that by loosening the lock collars,and moving the rod a little bit left or right , this will move all the x frame some but sometimes you can over adj. and have some room to play going backwards.

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: vinson ]

[amf8270mp]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

Torque tube may be bent...

I take a bottle jack and place it between the tube and the kickback,and start cranking the jack...works every time for me..

[Coors]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

Quote:]Originally posted by vinson:
Depending on what # machine the problem is you can get some adj. by adding a piece of wood between the catwalks[/QUOTE]
yes, as well as shimming where the table torque tube meets the table legs. and you can use the four jack screws of the front end to help with the swing of the table. ex lowering the 10 pin side of machine will cause pins to set further toward the 7 pin side...but then relevel table to set stone rack

[Mr. 800-R]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

ADDING AN PIECE OF WOOD BETWEEN THE CATWALKS?

ROTFLMAO!

That would be a butcher job!

If you did that sooner or later a weld is going to come apart, or some piece of the framework is going to crack.

Do the job right and MOVE the machine the way it needs to go! Don't BEND it!

[pat]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

Good luck.

I did not see that you had flagged the table.

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: pat ]

[Dutch]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

BG,

We had to do a lot of these when Hilton replaced their kickbacks. It isn't as big a chore as it sounds. 2 people can move the machine in about 15-20 min… 30 if you're both virgins.

The best part is how nicely your other adjustments fall into place when the machine is where it's supposed to be.

Just loosen the ¾” nuts on top of the elevating screws (on top of the kickbacks) & everything else that holds the front ½ of the machine in place. Slide the machine in the direction that you need to go using a BMF crowbar to push & clamps to pull. Tighten everything back up & do your normal TBL adjustments.


800 - Monkey bars? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] What are you calling Monkey bars? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

[Mr. 800-R]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

Dutch,

The bars between and odd and even machine. Bolted to the catwalk and pinwheel guard.

[vinson]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

800 evidently you have never done installs of well used machines, its more common than you think and there is no risk of any welds breaking.

[Mr. 800-R]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

Vinson,

No I havent installed any new or used equipment.

There is no reason to ever use wood between the catwalks.

How many years have you had machines running with wood between them.

In my opinion you should only post if you have valuable information for someone.

Your method is not a viable way to repair this problem.

I have worked in plenty of houses and NEVER seen such jerryrigging.

[Guest]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

ALL OF YOUR SUGGESTIONS ARE GREAT, WELL ALMOST ALL OF THEM, JUST KIDDING. I THINK I WAS ON THE RIGHT TRACK. I LOOSENED UP EVERYTHING ON THE MACHINE, EXCEPT, IS THERE ANYTHING TO LOOSEN AT THE TOP OF THE UPSWEEPS? I LOOSENED THE 2 9/16" BOLTS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE UPSWEEP AT THE STARTER PAD. ALSO, THE BOLTS THAT CONNECT THE FRAME OF THE MACHINE TO THE WOODEN KICKBACKS ARE SLOTTED, AND THE ALLEN BOLT IS ALREADY MAXED, MEANING THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IT TO GO ANY MORE LEFT.

ONE THING I DID NOTICE IS THERE IS A BRAND NEW X FRAME IN THE MACHINE THAT THE PREVIOUS HACK MECHANIC INSTALLED. IS IT POSSIBLE TO LOOSEN UP SOMETHING THAT WILL ALLOW ME MOVE THE X FRAME OVER A LITTLE BIT?

15 YEARS EXPERIENCE AND I NEVER HAD TO CHANGE AN X FRAME. I AM REALLY EMBARRASED THAT I DO NOT KNOW THW ANSWER. MAYBE MOVING THE X FRAME ONLY IS NOT THE PROPER WAY, BUT I'LL DO JUST ABOUT ANYTHING, EXCEPT PUT WOOD IN BETWEN MY CATWALK.

AND YES, I DID FLAG THE MACHINE. TABLE IS OFF ABOUT AN INCH TO THE LEFT

[deadwood_dup1]

Re: MOVING THE TABLE FROM LEFT TO RIGHT?

Dutch: Looks like me of the past eh?

Lets take a seaT BEfore someone gets hurt. I agree, I myself have no clue what vinson is talking about nor can I picture its relivence. But, it also sounds like a shift problem. After the Northridge Earthquake Lane #1 had shifted and was 1/2 inch back and to the left. Once flagged we got it centered and the only way to fix it was to grind down the spot lever to make more room to adj. the spot rod. Moving the A frame will only shift the back of the machine since the front end is mounted to the kickbacks. To me it sounds like over the years the front assy. got tweaked. If Bowling Guy Properly flagged the table and was unable to move it right far enough then you need to do some "Field Engeneering" (Sorry on pain killers) Either that, take your table legs off and inspect for binds.

Other than that lets not get at eachother throats. What worked for one will work for another and might not work for you or them. Obsurd things do work sometimes, but as stated re-drilling holes in shuttle tubes to stop a headpin from going into the cup after it drops into the bin is a simple case of your shuttle not being back far enough.

In any event, Lets keep an open mind. Take every word on bowltech with a grain of salt and everything will work out. If wood under catwalks works then so be it, but you know you wont try it. Okayie? Good

P.S. When you say X Frame do you mean Yoke? Because "Yoke" sounds better. Heh... And no it cant be moved over it is stationary with the Yoke Legs. Only the shafts. But in the end they have to be centered with the cups as a guide.

Deadwood

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Deadwood2 ]