Mid-air spot attempts!

[Guest]

Been quite a while since I've posted... but here goes!

First, for those who dont know.... I work in a 10 lane house with 82-70Cs....

In the few months I've been working here... I've seen some strange stuff, but this takes the cake..... Lane 8 was staying on one ball cycle (either first OR second, it just didnt always change...) So, we changed chassis.... Worked fine for more than a week. All of the sudden, it starts doing it again... So, head mech was upset (lots of other stuff going on, and he had places to be) he switched chassis between 8 and 9.... Was open bowling all day, had people on 8 all day, no problems.... Half way thru the day I look at 9.... its on first ball, rake is up, NO PINS ON THE DECK!!! Well, I thought about it for a second, the bowlers reset it.... (nice to not tell the bartender (no counter...) it was messing up...) Anyway, worked fine... they bowled on it, first ball cycle went fine.... 2nd ball gets thrown, rake comes down, all is normal until.... Table comes down to spot pins... stops HALF way down (NEAR the re-spot height... a little above) Cups tip up, then back to horizontal position, table goes back up.... Well, they reset it again, worked for 2 frames, then it did it again.... I went up, told the bartender to move them to 10...
I go back again, cycle it from the control.... does fine, then I trigger it (pull on cushin) and it messes up... (could be coinsidence).... HUH!? I really dont get it, ran thru a couppla more times that way, worked fine 4 times, messed up once more.... ANy ideas on the not switching on 8 or the mid-air spot attempts would be apreciated!!!! Really got me on this one... I'm a rookie, but am too puzzled to wait to talk to the head mech tomorrow night (if he has it fixed by then... if not, hope you can help!)

[Guest]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

Wasnt too clear on that.... It works 100% normal until the table comes down to spot, goes down somewhat slowly... and stops half way down.... We're running non-original chassis config (its 2 boards.... but they take up 3 slots, no clue upgrade type or number...) Would really like to know what its doing!

[John_Galt]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

Sounds like an Omega-Tek chassis conversion, but that is a very solid unit and I doubt the problem is there.
If I understand correctly, this is known as a "half dry-spot," where the table does not go down only to respot position and the cups only turn part-way. Likely that the shuttle would not operate either.

Check the front of the machine during spotting to make sure that the spot solenoid is energizing and operating properly, and that the little bolt or rod connecting the solenoid to the mechanism is intact. Also, make sure the spotting rod latch is not worn and is connected properly. Another check is that the table drive eccentric is not getting stuck. It could be as simple as that needing some grease.

If all that checks out OK, the spot solenoid (round one in the chassis) may be going to hell. Even if it is replaced, there may be another fault in the wiring causing it to fail prematurely.

My suspicion is that the problem is in the spotting mechanism on the front of the machine.

Hope you can solve this and be a superstar.
Chad

[DetroitSignal]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

The spotting situation on 9 sounds like a "dry spot" problem. The table (should be spotting) goes down to respot level, tips cups down and back, then goes back up. The problem in my case is that the Cam Lever #6278 (PAGE 5.18 IN MANUAL) is not actuating the spotting mechanism. I have not fixed this problem myself, being the B-mechanic, but usually the A-mechanic wraps some black electrical tape around the lever to make it thicker so it can actuate the mechanism. SOMEONE PLEASE CORRECT ME IF THIS IS WRONG. It's been a while since I've seen a dry spot. I'm just going by what I've seen.

As far as the chassis, I dunno [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]

[Kat]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

There are several possibilities here:

If pins are in the cups when this happens, doubtful it's the solenoid...since the shuttle was unblocked to allow pins to drop.

Check for possible bind or worn roll pin in the table eccentric latch. If theres any slop, the latch will not be held up and fall into the notch on the eccentric disc and follow the short contour of the table drive. Those roll pins are known to break and cause this.

Another is table coasting...if your table is coasting past the 355 mark badly, the nylon roller will be too far forward of the unlocking finger that is supposed to trigger latch mentioned above.

This would be where I'd check first.

[Coors]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

what kat said

[Jimmy Jam]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

2 machines problems from 1 chassis. Break out your test meter.

[8270 pinspotter]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

The spotting problem on 9 definatly sounds like a mechanical problem, not electrical. I agree that the table drive latch is probably not being held down long enough for the table eccentric to release. There could be a broken roll pin in the table drive causing this. Also the spot solenoid is probably good, but make sure it is tight enough. To do this push the plunger in by hand and try to lift up on the spot latch (the one that pushes the nylon roller on the table drive) If you can lift that latch while the solenoid is engaged, it's not tight enough. You can also watch the solenoid while the machine tries to spot pins and make sure the plunger stays in the whole time and does not pull in, then drop for a split second then go back in. If this happens the four screw that hold the solenoid on the bracket need to be tightened. I also believe that you can take the rubber spacers out if you need more room to tighten it. Hope this helps
Good Luck [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

Info I didnt include... sorry.... There are pins in the cups when it happens.... it looks like a normal spot attempt, save for slow table motion, then the table stops half way up and... you know the rest.... Thanks for the sugguestions! If by chance he doesnt know what causes it when I go in tonight, then you'll have helped out a TON, and if he has fixed it... at least I have an idea now!! Thanks!

[EX-MECH]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

How come no one has suggested replacing the Spot Relay???

[Kat]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

Spot relay wouldn't be at fault here as we know the solenoid has fired due to pins being in the cups. The spot relay fires the spot solenoid at 186 degrees. The problem is definitely mechanical related...most likely in the lowering eccentric.

[the old dirt man]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

boy I'M confused [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] if the original problem was on #8 AND WHEN the chassis was put on #9 and the problem followed the chassis why would the problem be in the table dr or shuttle operator or the cam adjustments!! I think the ex-mech is right about the spotting relay is bad or the lower table contacts are shot or the screw is missing on the stationery lowers causing table to coast [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]
but then I might need another beer and read the post a few more times. CRUDO

[Kat]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

Crud:

That's true and a good point...about the table contactor causing a coast beyond 355. I mentioned that in an earlier reply.

But, I doubt the relay can be bad because how can the solenoid fire to get pins in the cups [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

[the old dirt man]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

KAT,
on the solid state chassis the 10v spot relay does two things intermittent spot in other words the solenoid pulls in and drops out fast causing the problem of pins in the cups.the other problem is a continuous spot on 1st ball LOL carbon builds up across the center contacts and it spots all the time. CRUDO
I don't have the fancy stuff like you.LOL
I still have the old chet.

[Kat]

Re: Mid-air spot attempts!

Crud:

Interesting...I'll have to look into that. I wonder if Deadwood has encountered this yet on his SS Chassis.

So, in other words, are you saying that on the SS Chassis a bad 10VDC sport relay can cause the solenoid to fire enough to allow the shuttle to unblock but not long enough to allow the eccentric to unlatch?

This is good shyt to know. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

Thanks for the info Crud. If this turns out to be Adams problem, I stand corrected. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/shocked.gif[/img]