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LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

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  • LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

    Hey guys...Been quite busy at my center lately. One day I have 1 machine that will every once in a while slip into Instructomat only when the pair is on. (Last pair in the house so Lane A board controls the last pair) Next go to work on the yoke spring tension on a lane, break for lunch. Come back and reset the machine and the machine starts to go through a con't swp cycle. So go through the hole song and dance checking the SA cam, Master CB, changing swp run switch, checking swp/rev relay, swp c/b, replacing PC board etc..

    Finally digged through the ANM&C box to find Pinsetter Control and pulled them from 5 & 6 on Ln8 T/S. Well finally pulled the Lane A board and swaped it and the problem went away. Well...

    Tonite had some people on 25 & 26 bowling and all of a sudden they are complaining that there machine is not working right. So I go down and check it out and there it is again. Throw a ball, 2 sec delay and the pinsetter swp's the deck and sets a full rack showing a strike. So I repl. the Lane A board with a known working replacement and it goes away. Im tellin ya Im about to take the LIU outside and shoot it with a 12 guage, then take it to my head and do the same. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]

    My question is...Have you ever had these symptoms I describe? Ive never seen a center that had sooooooo many LIU problems. The owner is thinking of putting Qubica in and I totally am for it but until then I need some major help before i crap out!

    Deadwood
    Well thats just like your opinion man...

  • #2
    Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

    yes problems to, instructo and running the m/c on and off, so i think it is haunted..

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

      Deadwood:

      The LIU is quite sensitive to voltage problems (as well as being a piece of trash). What I would recommend is that you install a GOOD UPS on the line so that the voltage is always regulated. This will prevent it from normal AC line spikes and sags.

      If and when you do go to Qubica, that UPS can transfer over to the new system.

      Also, ensure that PM is being done on the LIU. Make sure all fans are operating, it is ALWAYS free of dust, and in a somewhat ventilated area.

      Only once in a blue moon will I have LIU issues...I feel I can attribute that to the above precautions.
      "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

      --Kat

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

        We have had problems with Lane A boards that I have traced back to mechs changing chassis with the lane plugged in. They just turned off the machine and started pulling plugs. That can fry the board.

        Also loose conections where the LIU is connected to the old wires can cause problems.

        Take the LIU outside at least once a year and blow it out with a leafblower - lots of dust.

        Also, when a lane stops working, or appears to have gone into instuctomat, have the front desk person type <lane#> <pinspotter> <on>, before the even call you. That will fix it many times.

        If this happens often, across the house, you may have a loose connection behind the LIU, check and clean, reseat all boards. In fact instead of changing with a known good spare, swap from within the LIU and see if the problem moves to the new lane range.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

          Small Town Guy: Already have done the swaping thing as i stated before and the problem has always just disapeared.

          Kat: HAH! your jokeing right? I mean look at my backend and you think my LIU is in a well ventalated area? Its stuck in a cabniet and it looks like the titanic. hehehe :p :p

          deadwood
          Well thats just like your opinion man...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

            Maybe you should ask El Crudo for help. He is around there somewhere.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

              Originally posted by Kat:
              Deadwood:

              The LIU is quite sensitive to voltage problems (as well as being a piece of trash). What I would recommend is that you install a GOOD UPS on the line so that the voltage is always regulated. This will prevent it from normal AC line spikes and sags.

              If and when you do go to Qubica, that UPS can transfer over to the new system.
              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">A UPS unit will work, but can also go less expensively with a power conditioning/regulating unit, basically a switching power supply, that will feed the whole circuit. It will not need the care and expensive gel batteries that a UPS does, but it also doesn't protect against power outages. Since an outage would also shut down the machines, I don't really see it as being an issue. You can get a much larger power conditioner for the same price as a smaller UPS.

              I would suggest getting one large enough to protect all of your 'delicate' electronics (scoring, machine electronics, computers, etc...), install it on a heavy circuit out of the main panel, and feed it into a separate panelboard. Move all the branch circuits feeding the electronics into the new panel.
              <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

                G-Man,

                Granted, he does not NEED a UPS, but it prevents the "quick-cycling on/off" when there are those power sags. Sometimes here in L.A. we have a 2-3 second sag (at least in my center's area when windy). Before we installed UPSs, the LIU would crap out and have to be power cycled.

                Even though the pinsetters will not work during an outage, it gives you time to gracefully shutdown the system if the power is going to be out for any length of time.

                FWIW, we have a 1400VA UPS on our LIU, a 500VA UPS on our WYSE terminal, and a 500VA on the back office server. Isolated Ground Surge Suppression (with alarms) are installed on the curtain wall for related equipment. Since doing this, I have not had any scoring component failure.
                "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

                --Kat

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

                  8230: already enlisted crud in my LIU army.

                  But in any case, I fixed the problem. A few bad switches in the Framemeter box and a few F'd up ribbon cables and a little magic and all is well again. A few wierd moments. Replaced the CPU and all of a sudden machines were turning on and off by themselves. So put the old dusty one back in, a quick rub of an eraser on the pins and wala! Back in business.

                  Although...Im looking for spare parts. I need 2 to 3 extra ribbon cables and a few Lane A boards. Any ideas where I can get some?

                  deadwood
                  Well thats just like your opinion man...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

                    Originally posted by Kat:
                    G-Man,

                    Granted, he does not NEED a UPS, but it prevents the "quick-cycling on/off" when there are those power sags. Sometimes here in L.A. we have a 2-3 second sag (at least in my center's area when windy). Before we installed UPSs, the LIU would crap out and have to be power cycled.
                    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">On your PC/Server/Terminals... yes, a UPS is more effective...

                    If you are combatting mostly brownouts, most good power conditioners can stabilize a sag at the correct voltage, down to around 80 volts for about 5-10 seconds if I remember correctly.

                    I am definitely one for UPS units... heck the computer I'm on now (and the room around it) is protected by a Ferrups/BESTPower 2.1KvA supply (if you've never seen one, it uses two car-battery sized gel cells for backup power, and weighs about 280lbs)... Problem is, most center owners don't want to spend the considerable amount of frogskins it takes to own beasts like that... especially when they find out that they will need large, heavy, (and fairly expensive) batteries in the future.

                    If you can get the UPS units, definitely go for it... if not, at least get a conditioner to help prevent surge/sag gremlins.

                    If I had my way, I'd have a 400hp diesel generator from a hospital stationed out back... Power outage? Where??? Gonna be out for a while? Heck, there's nothing else to do, you might as well come and bowl... In an area that gets frequent outages, I think it would be a heck of a business-booster... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                    <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

                      Deadwood,

                      Just my $.02. When I started at my center 9 years ago, the first thing I did was blow out everything with the compressor (what a dust storm).
                      With the LIU, I took a sheet of that thin A/C filter sponge/foam (for window A/C's) and attached it to the bottom air intake. Now, every 30 days or so, I'll vacuum off the dust from the sponge "filter", and every year open it up and blow it out. In 9 years, I've only replaced a CPU and a Lane A board.
                      BTW, the LIU sits in an open door cabinet at the desk.
                      Leyton at Tahoe

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

                        When we redesigned our front desk from an island to one attached to the back concourse wall, the wall happened to separate the desk area from the electrical supply sub-station room. We moved the LIU into there, where Air Conditioned air was always being fed. It's on an open shelf, on top of a spare LIU unit that's ready to be plugged in when the "dirty" one is removed for cleaning.
                        Also: used short ribbon cables from the LIU to a junction box, in which I installed 5 (for 40 lanes) AMP round CPC flange receptacles. From these receptacles are 5 cable assemblies with AMP round CPC plugs going to the old (renewed) managers control boxes by the desk (for service). If a ribbon cable goes bad, it's a quick replacement, nothing buried or hidden.
                        PS: I have three LIU's. (More than AMF!!)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

                          deadwood....you might try the manufacturer for the cables and boards or you can always try a few of the other repair and sales centers around. E Marshall has always provided good service and so does Purrfect Score out of Florida. It always pays to check all spare equipment when you come into a center.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: LIU....Bout to take a crowbar to it..Wouldnt you?

                            8230: What spare equipment? Heh, When i got in I didnt know what was good or bad. Anyways the day I got the LIU up and running, my GM came in that morningn and it crashed again. Took 8 hrs to get it back up. We are currently looking for a spare LIU. I will probably build it because the GM will probably not buy a hole unit so ill just grab parts when I can. Oh well...Another thorn out of the side. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

                            deadwood
                            Well thats just like your opinion man...

                            Comment

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