Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

[K-Dub]

Our center's 82/70 machines are suffering from ball return problems and we were told PBL replacement was the way to go. We were also told about a mini PBL sold by Vantage that was cheeper. Are these any good. Thank You for your help.

[Mas8230]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

One word, "humpbacks"!!!!!

[8270king]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

We have 0 ball calls with Humpbacks.

If they are installed correctly they are the best.

I have only lost one belt in the last year and it was a old white one.

Jerry

[Ed Fox]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

You just wait and see....you havent tried my new kicker yet....but then again neither have I..........but their being manufactured as I type! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Charlie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[WHERE IS THE SHOT]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

I've got both 18 lanes of humpbacks and 12 lanes
of mini PBL'S the humpbacks are by far easier to
install and in my opinion much better.

[deadwood_dup1]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

K-Dub: what do you curently have? I have 24 lanes of kickers and 1 pair has a humpback. We rarely get a ball call now. 99% of the house has the murrey whities on and the Zot sawtoot's on the lower filler plate. every now and then a pin will try to return itself to the bowler but other than that 0 ball calls. I am not one who likes the kicker system but i have to say they can be worked on.

deadwood

[8270 pinspotter]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

AMF also sells a mini pbl. They call it PBL+. I would get the AMF version if you go with PBLs. I have them and I have zero ball calls since I installed them two years ago.

[Kat]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

Judging from all the praise the Humpbacks have gotten (not just here at Bowl-Tech, but quite a few other centers) love them. I haven't an honest opinion of them (as I have PBLs), but if I had kickers, I might go the Humpback way.

[BowlEquip]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

A few observations based on 15 years experience with PBL's.
1. The light ball sensor, when it is clean and works, works very well, but many consider it a maintenance nightmare. Normal rebuilding isn't too difficult and does not cost much until you need cams or weldments. Then, [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

2. The mini and plus versions replace the sensor with the spring-loaded link, which was also available for the kicker system, but with the PBL or Humpback, the spring-loaded link requires slowing down the rudder with reduction pulleys to allow light balls into the lift. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] Combine any of these with Lifelong's light ball clutch for less hassle, and more reliable service.

3. The PBL-revised ball lift, which is used with any of the upgrade ball exit systems (PBL, Humpback, Tuffy Air Exit), sits lower in the cavity and at a slightly different angle. After experiencing ball-spinning problems in centers that have changed from kickers, it is now my recommendation that you change the track rail weldments. Here's why:
Original rails that came with machines prior to PBL have a different profile. That is, they are bent at a different position up the rail and subsequently curved different at the top. The new lift angle benefits greatly from the new rail angle, reducing the possibility of a heavily oiled ball from spinning half way up the lift.

My machines came with PBL's, not the first, but were manufactured about 1 year after their introduction. They have a mix-and-match batch of rails. I therefore have to replace most of them, too.

4. The Humpback eliminates the 2 kicker belts. Either PBL eliminates the 2 kicker belts, but adds a v-belt for the 1st stage lift (lift arm) ratchet. The Tuffy Air Exit eliminates all belts but the carpet/lift drives.

Thought you'd like to know. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[felix]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

BowlEquip; I for one was not aware of different rails(bends & curves). But shimming and new rubbers seems to be the Key. I like the humpback idea, but I think they even must use the rocket rails. Don't know if I like what the loping might be doing also. [IMG]
Your Curious felix [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
P.S. Ihave PBL's

[8270king]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

Rocket Red gutters......my favorite color!

Jerry

[felix]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

That's ModIV red and REAL WOOD! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[BowlEquip]

Re: Will a PBL fix our ball return problems permanantly?

Rocket Rails are awesome. Even Brunswick guys are using them.