Pin falling during spotting

[Pin_Head]

OK,well here is my problem. I have a lane where the 5 pin keeps falling over during spotting. First of all i checked the cup and the opening was spot on, so i thought hmmm, then checked table height and at center of eccentric and clevis pin table is spot on 5/16" off the pindeck, and at 6" from the deck the bubble reads exactly half to the rear, i had even flagged the table and got it dead on , and the table is level other 9 pins spot perfectly just the 5 pin once in 6 or 7 frames falls over. If anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated so i can finally get some sleep. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

[Rep]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

First thing that popped into my mind was the spotting cup itself. Pull it out of the machine and see if it's warped at all (i.e. put the open part of the cup face down on a flat surface and see if it wiggles at all or lays flat) If it's not laying flat, throw a new cup in and that one in the trash. Happens from time to time, not easy to see either, but I've seen it enough times to suggest it. Also another thing to check in the cup is naturally the liners (if ya use em) and also the rubber washer that the bottom bolt goes thru, make sure it's not sticking out and is flush with the cup, saw a few times where it'll stick out from the cup a bit and bump the butt of the pin as it falls into the cup. If all your table adjustments are right odds are its something in the cup itself.

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[TheGMan143]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Before you take the cup out to check it, make sure the bottom cup gap isn't way off... if it's too wide, the pin hits the deck sooner than the others, and can fall... if it's too narrow, it will pinch the pin or flip it forward as the cup moves away from the pin. Also check that the front finger isn't hitting the butt of the pin as the cup swings through it. This is another cause of pins falling over, and like a bent cup, it can sometimes be pretty easy to miss it.

Causes of this would be the fingers opening slow off a strike cycle, and that particular finger is just far enough out of adjustment to be in the way of the pin... The stringer could be catching the top of the cell just enough to slow it down or cause the front finger to swing forward enough to catch it... The cell itself may have a bent pivot pin or a bind, causing it to open slow and catch the pin.

Tech tip: An easier way to check for warped cups is to head to the local metal/welding shop, and have them cut you a rectangle of 10-gauge T15 aluminum, or 12-gauge steel flatstock, big enough to lay an entire cup on. Drop the table in respot until the fingers close and shut it off. Take the plate, lay it flat on top of each cup, and try to rock it (just like you would rock a cup on a flat surface). It's a good spot-check to do as part of your machine PM... and it takes a lot less time than pulling a cup or cups out to check them. I do this during summer maintenance...check all 10 in each machine, and if I find a warped cup that isn't really causing a problem, I just mark the back of it with a red permanent marker. If that particular pin starts mysteriously falling at a later time, I have a possible place to start looking. It also makes it very easy to rule out (or find) a bent cup during a league, without having to stop play long enough to pull it out and reinstall it. I'll post a pic of my "improvised cup gauge" that also has blocks to check cup-gap at the same time...

[Lampie]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Some good points here from Gman.
Maybe another solution I use is to get the tabel lower than 5/16", lowering the the table doesn't give a problem aslong as it doesn't hit the pindeck(be sure it's level with the pindeck and don't tilt the pindeck to much!!).

Martin

[8270king]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Take all cup liners and throw them in the trash.....they just gum up with oil and cause falling pins.

Jerry

[Rep]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Excellent idea Gman, I will look into getting one of your patented tools, that sure is a lot easier then pulling the cup out everytime to see if it's warped

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[Pin_Head]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Thanks everyone and thanks rep, i tried what you suggested and it worked a treat, i never to be honest even thought of a warped cup, after checking that the 4 1/8" cup opening was spot on. After placing the cup on the work bench it wobbled worse than a bodgey Nascar on 3 wheels. Now lane 2 spots perfectly. Again thanks heaps to everyone. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[Rep]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Pin_Head, my pleasure glad to be of any help I can. Just seen warped cups a bit too often and its what I check for right after the gap, like I said its extremely hard to see but it does happen. Glad to hear all went well [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Those are all great ideas. I totally agree with the King though. Liners are no good...all waste. I never use any cups anymore except the lexan cups. They take very little adjustment and they sit absolutely beautiful. I have never seen any cup on the market, including the original ones, that compare to the smoothness of the lexan cup. (With NO liners!) LOL.

King! Love the way you cut to the chase man. Too many techs now-a-days worry about keeping everything stock. They need to realize that making "your" machines run better may require some 'adjustment' other than factory recommendations. I am a stickler for fixing things right and not just 'rigging' them up. But, sometimes there are always going to be those exceptions to the rule where "MODIFICATIONS" must be made.

Happy wrench turning All!

[8270king]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

I am a lexan fan now too.....I can make them spot right on even on machines that wont allow a aluminum cup to come close to the spot....I have to be careful not to overtighten.

Jerry

[Coors]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Originally posted by 82/70 king:
Take all cup liners and throw them in the trash

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">bingo, plus feel free to widen cup tips to more than recommended. many pindecks are depressed and setting the middle pins can be tricky.

[Guest]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Good point Coors!

Lexan will fix it all though! I am a fan, can you tell?

[BowlEquip]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Rep: great advice! I thought I was the only one anal enough to worry about twisted cups.
GMan: WOW! Thanks for the plate idea. Think I'll use it every time I set tables. I realized about eight years ago that the first step to setting tables is to make sure that the cup gaps are all correct. Now I have a new first step, the gaps being the second step. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
B.E.

[Rep]

Re: Pin falling during spotting

Bowl, hey as I said I'm glad to be of any assistance I can. Warped cups really threw me for a loop at first when I was newer to the machines. Anyway, now it's ALWAYS one of the first few things I check when one of my machines is dropping pins, and I must agree hats off to gman for the other idea sure as heck beats pulling cups totally out of the machine. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] Definately will be used by me as well [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]