Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

[Kat]

Does anyone out there have any experiences with the "Non Solid-State Motor Start Relays" from Stahls?

I just ordered a couple to experiment with and was curious to hear some input on them. I was intrigued by the fact that they do not involve re-wiring the stator on the combos. According to the catalog, they mount in the front wireways next to the caps.

Thanks guys.

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Kat: The center I'm at had them on half of the machines that were installed here. (70's)

When I did motor inspections the first week I was here, I saw that the Cent mechs were gone off some of the table motors (Nationals) and no SSS switch was in sight.

They were all in the wireways. I couldn't figure out who made them until a few weeks ago. The relays are fabulous and I'm putting them on all my table motors.

I've used Lewis, Quality, and a couple others that mount to the motor. They don't hold a candle to the Stahls Relay. You have to know where they are though because you cannot put a motor with a SSSS on a machine that has the relay or your SSSS will fail.

I called Stahl's and they sent me the schematics for motor installation. Once they are in the wireway all you have to do to the stator is to connect your start winding with a crimp nut. All I do for maint on those motors is blow them out and change bad bearings.

I had all my other SSSS wired with Molex plugs and if one went bad I'd just plug in another. But that motor would already have been overheated.

I'm not sure how long these relays have been installed but I haven't had any problems. At $26 each that is alot of satisfaction.

Westinghouse motors just move Z from the motor plug (red wire which goes to 1 on the terminal board) to 6, this will bypass your cent mech.

Haven't put one on a sweep yet but I will be soon.

Mike

[Kat]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Mike:

Thanks for the detailed info. I'm getting pretty fed up with all of the centrifugals and feel that going to SSSS is cheaper in the long run. I like the idea of them being in the wireway. Currently I've got cent mechs on all of my combos.

I've got Westinghouse Combos across, so I thank you for the info about the plug. Are there any mods that need to be done for Sweep Reverse? I know of some ESSS that require mods to regain sweep reverse.

Anyway, enough babbling.. I feel even more confident about these now.

[8270king]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Put them on the sweeps 1st.

You know they switch twice as often.

When they go bad either the klixon trips or the sweep will overrun its stop.

I have them on the table and sweep.

If you want the wiring for sweep with MP or expander I will post it.

I run 3 wires for my sweep relays. I have seen them installed with 2 and wire nuts......but I didnt like that.

Jerry

[Kat]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Jerry:

That was my intentions on putting the sweeps on first. Please do post the diagram for the MPs.

Thanks.

[8270king]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Instructions:

Terminal 1 - wire to TS23
Terminal 2 - wire to red from sweep motor cable
Terminal 5 - wire to C-1 row 3 #7 FF
Terminal 5 - wire to pink from sweep motor cable.

I ran a new wire from the C-1 plug to terminal 5.....no butt connector or solder.

I took out the extra switch in the combo motor.

I clipped the wires to the switch terminals in the combo motor and broke off the switches.

I removed the centrifugal switch...this could be the biggest benefit from ithe conversion....we had a couple stators chewed up from losing cent. switches.

Jerry

[Bill LeMieux]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

I've been out of this business for a few years and am trying to keep up with new products and terminologies, so at the risk of sounding, er, well, you know, stupid,- what is an sss switch, and ssss. What do those letters mean. I know what a Solid state, and obviosly, a non solid state switch is and what they do and how they affect the motor but don't know what the term means. Any help? Thank you's kindly- Bill

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Bill, for my post they are one and the same. ssss would be (Solid State Start Switch.)

Sorry for the confusion.
Mike

[Kat]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Update:

I've got the two that I ordered on a pinsetter now and absolutely love them. I will be ordering more.

I just made sure to make a label to affix to the stators about the mod.

They definitely do what they claim...and yes, no coasting. It stops on a dime.

[bowlingpinman]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

THEY WORK GREAT I USE THEM ON ALL COMBO MOTORS I REFER THEM AS MOTOR START RELAYS ........BPM

[vinson]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

I drilled 2 holes into my chassis support and bolted them there at the motor, and put a small instruction sheet taped there incase a motor needs changed . If a normal motor needs put on,a couple of wires need to be pulled off and combined so this makes it a lot easer for a pinchaser to get to.

[poplarpetey]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

You should mount them in the wireway or in a box similar to the A&MC box to prevent someone from getting injured.

Pete

[8270king]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

I agree Petey......high voltage outside the wireways......

Vinson....did you mount them to that 2x4?

Jerry

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Wow, thought I had one fail today; just a loose connection. They're still solid!

[Lampie]

Re: Stahl's Non-SS Motor Start Relays

Stupid question maybe:
What is generaly ment with solid state??
Is it with only electronic components and without a relay?
Or is this motor starting device just another timer relay switching out the start circuit in a split second filled with epoxy to make it look "solid state" (and makes it hard to look what's realy inside).
Don't wanna argue about the good results of this SSSS...just curious how it works and want to know when something is called solid state!
(Allthough the best timer in my opinion stays the cent. mech.).
But if it works it works..

Martin

Ps

Oops!, I was just re-reading this topic and I saw it started with a NON-SSS, but the difference between ss, nss and the good old cm keeps foggy...(just like I've never seen so many components that can come loose as in a "solid state chassis")