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Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

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  • Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

    Hi All, I have p[osted this before with no immediate results in stopping this problem. We are running between 70 and 100 calls a week from deadwood-(meaning pins in gutter or on lane in front of sweep). We have 70's with Qubica and scoring machine cycle time delay set to 0 which is fastest cycle setting. We also have reconnected our cushion cycle start switches with no improvement in the situation. Most machines are missing 1 or both fibre panels on steel kickbacks-(my boss thinks they are unneeded)and electronic cycling is not an option at this time. What would any of you recommend we do to stop these calls. I'm sick of chasing these calls.
    I think the fibre panels missing have alot to do with it, but lets see what others have to say
    Thanks in advance for all the replies, AmfPro

  • #2
    Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

    Sounds like your sweeps are out of adjustment to me. Deadwood at some point is pretty much unavoidable, but the amount of calls you're getting is indeed a lot! The main thing that I see a lot to cause dead wood is the sweep height at the 5 pin spot. Crank the sweep to there and have the sweep about 1/4 of an inch off the deck by adjusting the bracket the telescopic link hooks to, up lowers the sweep, down raises it. Also check your sweep height at guard. Just my $0.02 [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

    Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
    All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

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    • #3
      Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

      Rep, I forgot to put in sweep adjustments are fine. The sweep just doesn't get to 1st guard fast enough to keep a pin from flying out past it.
      In some cases a pin in the flat gutter may be causing the sweep slide bracket to raise up and allow the sweep to ride over the top of the pin to push out in front on return to 2nd guard, but in our case the pins are being hit off the lane by a ball and come flying out of the pit going toward foul line as fast if not faster than the ball hit them into the pit. Thanks for your reply. Maybe I'm was not giving enough information on this problem. When I say Deadwood, I mean at least to the downsweep toilet seat or further towards foul line. Pins are literally flying out before the sweep can get to 1st guard position

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      • #4
        Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

        Hmm, quite an odd problem to say the least. We still have ours triggered thru the shock and start switch and it's very rare that I see a pin beat the sweep coming down. Could something else be wrong with the sweeps? Loose crank arm or something to make them hesitate dropping to guard? I'm also assuming you have slow gearboxes on the sweeps, maybe try installing a fast one and see if it helps. I'm real low on ideas here lol

        Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
        All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

          Get rid of the slide bars and install the 090 sweep bracket.

          No fibre panels = BALL DAMAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          On an odd lane if you shoot a 7 pin......the ball rolls across the bounce board and hit the allen screws securing the ball door rings or fill segments putting marks on the balls...

          Jerry

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          • #6
            Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

            AMFPRO-

            I am curious, what type of cushion configurations do you have? Are you using any of the one piece cushions? Is it just certain lanes?

            We had a lane that you could literally bounce 4 out of every 5 10-pins out on. It was due to a one piece cushion assembly.

            Just my two cents...

            Fever [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]
            I really enjoy the Simpsons. My problem is that I am starting to look like Homer. Doh!!!

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            • #7
              Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

              Maybe he has the cushion shock mount flipped.

              Jerry

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              • #8
                Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

                Definately an odd problem, can't say I've had one like this myself. But I must agree with King here, fiber panels are a must or you WILL get damaged balls from them being missing.

                Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

                  You haven't mentioned what type of pins you run. I do know that synthetic pins (like twister) fly out into the gutter A LOT more than standard wooden pins.

                  Mr. C.
                  Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

                    AmfPro, do you have Telescoping Links or Shock Absorbers? And your pits could be to high also. Measure from the pindeck to the top of the steel kickback. It should be around 22".

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                    • #11
                      Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

                      Thanks for your replies-Here are some answers to some of your questions.
                      King-we have tried the 90 style bracket with no inprovement and we don't have ball damage from front or rear segments cause they have been ground down below the kickback surface. Also upper cushion shock mount is on correctly on all machinee.
                      SVL-we have standard wood planks with all normal cushion parts-no one piecers.
                      Mr.C-we rotate between Brunswick and Amf glow sets of pins- the Amf's are worse because of slick outer coating on the surlyn. We have the Brunswicks in now on the 70 to 100 calls a week average.
                      JJ-We have telescoping links and the height you asked about is 22 and 1/4 inches.

                      King and JJ- I've ben lurking around here long before I ever joined as a member so I know both of you may be a little more knowledgable on really weird problems like this. I too am a 20+ year Tech who is scratching my head on this one.
                      I've never seen nothing like this ever. Tell me if I'm way off base here, but I truly believe the pins are accelerating off the kickbacks after hitting or bouncing off the cushion and the major contributor to this is the new particle resin balls everyone seems to be using now. The balls have to be part of the equation here as they now have the ability to throw pins on impact in a very gifferent way than rubber, plastic, or urethane can. Out of the 70 to 100 week average, approximately 60 to 65 are in league play. I wish I could convince my boss to put all the missing fibre panels back on because I think it would make a big difference. Sorry to be long winded here, but after chasing damn near 5000 deadwood calls myself in the last 2 years, I am fed up with it and am trying to fix the problem on my own. Thanks everyone, AmfPro

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

                        Well as I said it's definately an odd problem to say the least. I've been around for 5 years or so, and never heard or even thought of this many deadwood calls. About all I can say is good luck fixing this one, sure is out there heh. And when you do fix it of course let us know in case a problem like this surfaces again [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

                        Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                        All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

                          perhaps things got changed in conquere with qubica, but a 0 delay defaults to 15. try setting the delay to 1. . .just for fun i have qubica/70's maybe 3-4 infront of the sweep calls a night.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

                            Be sure sweeps have the urethane boots on them too. I worked in a center that had nothing but deadwood calls and once I installed the boots the calls disappeared. As for the pins flying off the cushions or kickbacks I don't know. Maybe trying changing your cushion and make sure you have some slack in the pin curtain. That helps slow the pin down.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Extremely Excessive Deadwood Problem

                              Although I didn't mention this, I wholeheartedly agree to the fibre panels back on. I can't believe you don't have that much ball damage.

                              The 90s sweep mount did reduce the number of 'swept over' pins in the channel calls we had. The 90s mount eliminated them, however, we had to adjust our sweeps so they would clear the deck light fixtures when we put them on.

                              I don't know enough about the Qubica scoring but maybe you should change the time delay setting, if possible.

                              Have you happened to notice if the pins are bouncing back out by coming out through the gutter, or up onto the lane and under the sweep?

                              Fever [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]
                              I really enjoy the Simpsons. My problem is that I am starting to look like Homer. Doh!!!

                              Comment

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