Balls Underground

[James R]

We are having a problem with balls underground on a certain pair. We have replaced the Track Cushion on the Sure pik as well as the belt on the sure pik. We have also checked the underground track for any stray objects or loose track and havent found anything. We have tried running the Sure pik on aux. power to see if the door at the opening was coming up just enough to turn it off. We have also replaced the PBL in the back with a working one. Still hasnt fixed the problem. We have completely run out of ideas. Any thing you can suggest? Thanks a bunch.

[Rep]

Re: Balls Underground

Immediate thoughts on this one. Check the subway for any wires (from scoring or whatever) hanging down where the ball might hit it. And more importantly check the down rails, make sure they're in tight straight and not bent at all. And naturally check the tracking for broken pieces, etc as you said you did. If it's a Sure-Pik problem usually I get the relay in the control box working it's way loose and working its way out a bit causing the belt to stop running for a short time. Just make sure it's in tight. By the way are the balls on the track or off when you get the undergrounds? That should help narrow the problem more. Good luck! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[James R]

Re: Balls Underground

the balls are on the track every time. we have already checked the subways for any loose wires and the such. will look into the relay tomorrow. Im not sure if my boss has checked that yet.

[Rep]

Re: Balls Underground

James, ok. I solely asked because odds are if they're on the track it's not a downrail or track problem usually something up front with the Sure-Pik. I.E. the ball gets to the Sure-Pik and it either isnt running, doesnt pick the ball up, etc and the ball rolls back towards the pit on the track. Where as bad tracking, or downrails gets the ball wobbling as it comes back and it flies off the tracking. Anyway, as I said check the relay, wiring in the box for any bad connections, etc. Good luck and let us know how you fixed it [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[allan]

Re: Balls Underground

One thing not mention should check is motor
plug and it's wire strech causing me grif [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]

[Rep]

Re: Balls Underground

Good call allan, forgot bout that. Check that too [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Balls Underground

If you hear a thud as the ball comes off the downsweep then your downsweep is not balanced. Use a level and balance it at both ends.

If the ball hits the track smoothly and you hear a thud along the tunnel than clips have come out of the track, or the track is damaged causing the ball to loose balance and jump airborn in the tunnel like a derailed train.

If you do hear a thud then pull the gutter caps and look for damaged bracing. Once you find the bracing that has been smashed and is chipped away, then your problem is just upstream from there.

I have seen flex conduit for the foul lights ripped out from balls finally grabbing it.

If there is no sound than your problem is most likely up front at your Sure-pic entrance. I'm not sure how the Sure-pic is designed so this is where I get off the bus.

Good Luck

[8270king]

Re: Balls Underground

1. Get rid of ball wiper cloth.

2. Adjust leather strap....should just be able to get a finger up to second knucle between strap and ball when entering lift.

3. Observe ball coming into lift.....if ball comes up and spins......add spring tension by repositioning spring rods....if ball faile to get in lift....loosen spring tension.

4. Clean ball belts every morning or when lanes are oiled.

5. Best belt is black belt from AMF.

Jerry

[James R]

Re: Balls Underground

1. My boss will not get rid of the ball wipers.

2. Will try that tonight.

3. Im pretty sure we have already checked spring tension. Will check that too.

4. We clean the belts every night and scrap the flat belts every sunday night or as needed.

5. Pretty sure that we are using this belt.

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Balls Underground

I believe Life Long Engineering makes a special rail cover for the Sure Pic return. I would definately check that out.

Sounds like this is where your problem exists.

The leather strap doesn't need to be addressed that often if you have good rail covers.

Mike

[Kat]

Re: Balls Underground

Do you notice if this is happening with just 1 pinsetter running or is it consistent with the pair being on?

with the Sure-Piks everything MUST be in good shape. There cannot be anything on the way up front to slow down balls even the slightest bit, or the Sure-Pik will not work. Like mentioned, check to make sure the ball isn't jumping track, then back on at the downsweep. Check upper downsweep weldment from where the ball comes off the ball lift...I've seen many where the top weld had broke resulting in an unstable assembly.

Have you watched the Sure-Pik run for a good while with the cover off to see what's happening?
Is the motor losing power here and there? Lot's of things could cause this, like slop in the safety door on top, bad M1 relay in the MP Chassis, etc.

FWIW, we did not run ball wipes (and still don't) when we had the Sure-Stucks. I felt that they slowed the 6 pounders down too much.

[GPS]

Re: Balls Underground

I have to agree with Mike Jerry and Kat. First off broken ball track does not really jump out and hit you in the face. It becomes flattened and causes the ball to loose velocity. The track could be damaged at several points. The job of the revolving pick up belt is to get the ball rotating backwards. The job of the wide ball check belt is to keep the ball from rotating backwards. Hence the ball "walks" up the track. Any yo yos at this point will give you an underground. The ball check belts tend to glaze after extended use. If this is the case glue a 1 inch strip of an old inner tube to the center of the ball check belt. Good luck, Mike

[James R]

Re: Balls Underground

well, we scrape the flat belts every weekend to get rid of the glaze over. we also wash the v guide belts each night. I turns out that i got there today and one of the other mechanics fixed it. i dont know what they did but as long as it is fixed now, im happy. thanks for the input.

[Rep]

Re: Balls Underground

Glad to hear all is well. I still have a feeling it was something like a bad connection or loose relay or something of that nature. From your description and saying that you keep the belts clean and all I didn't think it was a matter of the Sure-Pik not gripping the ball or whatever. Anyway glad it's fixed [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]