Table wont set pins

[CommunityBowl]

I have a machine that intermintently will cycle and go only half way or 3/4 of the way down to set pins. This only happens when setting a new rack. The pins drop in the cups just fine but it will not put them on the pin deck. It normally works the third time I retry it. I have no idea where to start on this problem. I do see that the spring bracket closest to the motor (with 2 springs) is wore out and I will replace it tonight yet. Could this be the problem? I am just guessing here because in 3 years of running this joint I have had very few problems so my trouble shooting isn't quite up to par yet.

Thanks for your input.
[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[Louie_IV]

Re: Table wont set pins

Just a few ideas:

Maybe your table eccentric isn't getting unlatched or maybe it is getting jammed up causing the table not to go down all the way? Or (I don't know if you have 2 solenoids or 1)if your cups aren't turning all the way if you have 2 solenoids, maybe the solenoid for the spotting lever is sticking closed? Or, maybe the latch for the spotting lever isn't falling all may down and the lever is slipping out of it. Just some amateur observations as I don't have a lot of 70's troubleshooting experience.

Mr. C.

[CommunityBowl]

Re: Table wont set pins

I have a single selinoid and the pins do turn fully. they get about an inch away from the pindeck. I changed the spring bracket(what a PITA) and I ran 12 or 13 cycles on it with no problems. But it seemed to start after about 2 people bowled 2 games. I watched it run and everything seems to be operating correctly, and the latch works just fine. I can't believe it was just the spring bracket. Any other ideas guys?

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[James R]

Re: Table wont set pins

i was going to suggest that maybe the table was coasting just enough that it gets passed the spotting latch. usually, if this happens, it will turn the cups all the way but only go half way down, as in a respot. but you say it gets an inch away and goes back up so i dont know.

[Rep]

Re: Table wont set pins

More than likely something up front. For whatever reason the table drive isn't unlatching allowing the table to go fully down. The triangle plate you replaced (AMF calls it a spring hanger I believe) is the respot one, the spotting one is on the other side with only 1 spring on it (at least that's how it is on ours, not sure if AMF made any changes through the years there). But my advice is check up front, check the spotting solenoid and the table drive unit. If during spotting the table drive doesn't unlatch you'll get exactly what you described, the shuttle will shuttle and the cups will turn but the table wont go fully down. Could be a few things to cause it, but my first three places I'd look are the spotting latch, hook, whatever ya wanna call it, make sure it's not binding and then check out your solenoid and all parts, last time I had this problem it was a broken roll pin in the solenoid and if that fails I guess next would be to check the table drive unit. Good luck getting it fixed up [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[8270king]

Re: Table wont set pins

Check out the latch assy. in your table drive eccentric. Th roll pins that allow the latch to are probably worn and need replaced......if you manually try to move latch after you get it released you can see how much play the latch assy. has.

Jerry

[Louie_IV]

Re: Table wont set pins

If it was the solenoid, the pins wouldn't shuttle would they?? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

Mr. C.

[BowlEquip]

Re: Table wont set pins

No, an inop solenoid wouldn't allow shuttling. The hook controls turning of cups, so if the cups turn, it's not the latch/hook. The problem is definitely in your table drive assembly, in the mechanism on the top of the drive housing.
The older style link wears out rather quickly compared to the newer one that was revised around 1986. This is the flat plate that the nylon roller is attached to with the shoulder screw. The newer one is wider and rests better on the groove pin.
I've had quite a few of these cause problems just like yours, and urdateing this part has always solved the problem. Good luck! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[Pindecked]

Re: Table wont set pins

I'll bet a dozen donuts that those little roll pins in the latch ass'y have broken.

Hold the latch down firmly, & wiggle the white roller-you'll see the 'slop' in the setup.

Just set a new roll pin in the hole & drive it in-you'll see the old one come out in a lot of pieces.

[Brunsamf]

Re: Table wont set pins

Check the ball with 1/4-20 threads on it. This moves the square block in and out of the slot. I had one break. It looks like a tiny light bulb.

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Table wont set pins

Like King already said, check your roll pins. That's one of the first places I look.

Also, watch your solenoid to see if it holds in until the table drive rotates past.

Most automotive solenoids have a PULL IN winding to bring the linkage in and a HOLD IN winding to keep the solenoid shut.

With the machine unplugged or off, hook up a jumper from any 110 outlet. Once plugged in the solenoid should shut and if can pull it open with your hand then it's bad. Solenoids do get weak and will not hold in.

You can test it on the bench or just as easy to do it on the machine.

What can happen is your solenoid can pull in and that will give it time to shuttle and the latch to grab the spotting rod but it might pop out disallowing the engagement of latch on the table drive.

Another thing to look at is that your table shaft locking collar is locked so that the table shaft has not drifted toward the motor.

If the shaft has drifted, your lever cam will not come down because it is already resting against the latch on the table drive, thus causing your spotting latch to miss the spotting rod.

Good Luck
Mike

[CommunityBowl]

Re: Table wont set pins

DAMN you guys are good!!!! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] Just walked in off the farm and checked the posts, checked out the roll pins and guess what, IT WAS BROKE!!!! Not an easy item to see with your eyes but in less than 5 minutes I had it replaced.

Thanks to everyone's input. Pindecked where do I send the donuts? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Again you guys are amazing. This kind of quick and easy to get knowledge is worth more than any crappy book that amf puts out. I am indebted to you all.

P.S. My wife says thanks, cause I was bitchy all day tryin to think what it could be!!

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[Jiska-R]

Re: Table wont set pins

Some additional information would be good. What sort of machinery you're running would probably be a really good start [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] If you are using 82-30's, the most likely problem is the wiring from your pin counter is faulty. On the 82-30's if there's a problem with that connection, the table stalls half way down when spotting, only happened to me once when a connecting pin dislodged.

Jiska

[Rep]

Re: Table wont set pins

Good call earlier, if the solenoid needed work it wouldnt shuttle. I was thinking of when it last happened to me and the roll pin in it broke and would catch occasionally and shuttle then slip. Those little roll pins are ba$tards aint they? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Rep [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]