Messed Up Table

[Louie_IV]

A couple nights ago, a pin jammed in the 5 pin area of the table on lane 7. I'm not sure exactly how or what position it was in because I wasn't there when it happened. Anyway, ever since that happened, the table is really messed up. When it spots, the back 9 pins (excluding the 1 pin) are all in front of the spots about 1/2" to 3/4". And it won't even set the 6 pin down. When the table starts going back up, it starts taking the 6 pin back up with it and then it falls down. Also, the back 9 pins wobble really bad. The 6 pin falls over every time. We have spent hours looking over the table. We can't see anything broke or significantly bent. The cups are nice and tight and the links are nice and tight. We have respotted all the pins and it works fine now, but we still haven't found anything wrong with it? Any Ideas? Keep in mind that the 1 pin was perfectly fine. Only the back 9 pins were affected. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

(this is an 82-70)

Louie

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Messed Up Table

Make sure all your respot cell links are connected, especially the 6 cell.

From what you've described, one of your cell links is disconnected and the cell is closed with the legs toward the rear of the cell, This will prevent the cup from fully opening vertically which will affect all ten cups since they are linked together.

[EX-MECH]

Re: Messed Up Table

Louie, the problem your describing is fairly common, the tie link bushing are shot..The tie link connects all the shafts together..so start at the head pin..Ex-Mech

[Kat]

Re: Messed Up Table

Louie:

Go through all table adjustments and make sure nothing got tweaked out of place. I don't think flagging is necessary, so start with the 5/16" adjustment at DBC and go from there. Look especially at toe in adjustment with the spot rod.

[8270king]

Re: Messed Up Table

Check the cup opening too.

Jerry

[Louie_IV]

Re: Messed Up Table

Originally posted by Mike Stalker:
Make sure all your respot cell links are connected, especially the 6 cell.

From what you've described, one of your cell links is disconnected and the cell is closed with the legs toward the rear of the cell, This will prevent the cup from fully opening vertically which will affect all ten cups since they are linked together.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, all links are hooked up, the fingers work fine. It is working fine since we moved the back 9 pins back on spot just by moving the cup. The only problem now, is that the cups are hitting the heads of the pins when it goes down to pick them up.

Originally posted by EX-MECH:
Louie, the problem your describing is fairly common, the tie link bushing are shot..The tie link connects all the shafts together..so start at the head pin..Ex-Mech

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We already replaced one tie link bushing and the rest are tight. Besides, if it was this problem, it wouldn't have "suddenly" happened after the pin got jammed. We originally thought that it was a bent tie rod arm, but it doesn't look bent.

[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

Louie

[NOOLIO]

Re: Messed Up Table

Hi Gents &amp; Gals;

About a year,year&amp;a half ago we were discussing an issue that somewhat paralled this thread.

I recall posting the head pin wuz "dead nuts on", however,the remaining rows of pins (2-3,4 5 6,7 8 9 10)were all too far FOWRARD of the spots.

That particular 'cure' came from removing the spotting link from the yoke, off to the vice w/it,and hacksawing away a mere 3/32',maybe an eight of an inch off between the 1 &amp; 2-3 holes then reweld.

This creates more cup ROTATION on said back rows!

Again,(through trial &amp; error) LESS is more when shortening link.

Ya' might even hafta' crank some of those 5/16" nuts up a little on the "uppers" nuts of spotting cups on that back row.You know, the ones that've been held on by only a thread or two.Darn!

May or may not be the fix you're looking for in this case, but I gotta tell 'ya, this has ironed out a half dozen or so table spotting glitches through the years.

Hopin' to help...

[NOOLIO]

Re: Messed Up Table

Hi Gents &amp; Gals;

About a year,year&amp;a half ago we were discussing an issue that somewhat paralled this thread.

I recall posting the head pin wuz "dead nuts on", however,the remaining rows of pins (2-3,4 5 6,7 8 9 10)were all too far FOWRARD of the spots.

That particular 'cure' came from removing the spotting link from the yoke, off to the vice w/it,and hacksawing away a mere 3/32',maybe an eight of an inch off between the 1 &amp; 2-3 holes then reweld.

This creates more cup ROTATION on said back rows!

Again,(through trial &amp; error) LESS is more when shortening link.

Ya' might even hafta' crank some of those 5/16" nuts up a little on the "uppers" nuts of spotting cups on that back row.You know, the ones that've been held on by only a thread or two.Darn!

May or may not be the fix you're looking for in this case, but I gotta tell 'ya, this has ironed out a half dozen or so table spotting glitches through the years.

Hopin' to help...

Fatty

[8270king]

Re: Messed Up Table

Noolio......I had this problem on lane #9.

The real problem was a bent link that goes from the tie link to the table shaft the cups rotate with.....it is hard to see with the naked eye....however with both of them off you can see the difference in the tweaked one!

Jerry

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Messed Up Table

If the machine was working fine until your table jam then maybe the jam bent a shaft which would cause a jerking motion while spotting.

Crank your table down and release your yoke springs so that you can move your cups back and forth freely.

Your bond to find your problem here. Unless your table adjustments were borderline to begin with.

If you can't find an obvious problem start from scratch on your table adjustments.

Make sure the cotter pins are removed from your bin bracket dowels to prevent damage during table jams.
Hope your yoke is not broken!

[BowlEquip]

Re: Messed Up Table

Stay in the tie link area.
As the King said, could be a lever that tweaked during a jam. Since the headpin alone is OK, it's probably the #1 shaft lever.
The lever itself may be slightly out of shape (doesn't take much) or the key/keyway for that lever may be worn and the lever shifted on the shaft.
Another quick temporary (or permanent) fix is to remove the key and put the lever in a new position:
1. Remove headpin cup
2. Loosen the lever, Remove the tie link pin
3. Slide the lever over until the key is exposed
4. Remove the key. Scribe 2 lines, extending the key's opening onto the shaft so you can see where it used to be.
5. Return the lever to its original position, but
rotate the top of it towards the front about half the thickness of the keyway.
6. Clamp it tight for now.
7. Run a spot and see how it is. Fine tune to your liking.
8. This is important. Since the #1 shaft is pulling all the others, it has to fight all the yoke torsion springs (2 or 3), and therefore the lever may slip of not secured. Drill a 3/16" hole throught the casting and shaft and install a roll pin or #10 hardened bolt, such as a socket head cap screw.

Some only do this to the back row, but to get the pins more to the rear, on individual shafts, you must rotate the lever top toward the rear. Roll pin probably won't be needed for shaft #2 (no spring)

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Messed Up Table

BowlEquipt: keys are there for a reason. That reason is to time linkages and assemblies with one another.

Keep the keys where they belong and spend your time isolating the problem.

[Louie_IV]

Re: Messed Up Table

I agree with Bowlequip that if you have a bent link arm, you can remove the key, adjust it, drill a hole, and put a roll pin through it to keep it from turning on the shaft. It is just as good as a key! But, I also agree with Mike. If you do this, you will just be masking the original problem. The right way to do it would be to find the bent or twisted piece and replace it. But Bowlequip's southern engineering adjustment should work just fine. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

JMO [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Louie

[8270king]

Re: Messed Up Table

Those link arms get bent more often then you think.

Jerry

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Messed Up Table

I didn't read all of BowlEquipt's post. I see that he is securing the cup with a roll pin but what about someone that comes behind him.

Let's say that two years down the road the cap has hollowed out the drilled hole, the cup breaks and some poor sap thinks all he has to do is change a cup. SURPRISE!

I remember a couple of weeks ago someone suggested removing the key that sits between the shuttle cam and the table shaft. Advancing or retarding the cam, scribing a line then tighten it down as tight as you can. (without the key). I have better things to do with my time.

These machines aren't perfect by any means. Most of these keyed settings are engineered on centralized adjustments, meaning they can be moved a little either way.

I don't want to see some new mech who doesn't even know what a micrometer is, taking a key from its position on a table shaft. Just asking for trouble.

I ticks me off when I run into someones experiments that only needed correct adjustments to begin with.

Some people do not want to read the manual and go step by step; they want the final result doing only one or two of the steps.

Louie, start from scratch and set your table adjustments. 10-15 minutes and it's done.