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Is it chassis or is it scoring?


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  • Is it chassis or is it scoring?

    First, I'd like to apologize in advance for the length. Over on, a topic on whether or not to shoot at a full rack for league practice has split into a small argument between myself and another individual.

    One person noted that on a first ball gutter, the sweep came down, then went right back up. Better still, when there was a strike, the table didn't come down -- it just swept the deck and spotted a new rack. I attempted to explain the phenomenon this way:

    You're referring to Eagle in San Marcos, I trust. Those are 82-70s with an upgraded chassis/controller box that allows for what's known as "sweep reverse". The sweep drops, the camera scans, the box notices there's ten pins, and figures hey -- why bother lowering the table and sweeping the deck? Also, if the camera doesn't see any pins, it merely sweeps the deadwood and spots a new rack (aka "short strike cycle"). I don't think the scoring system enters into it, as the one they're using is ancient by today's standards.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Someone else disagreed, saying this:

    There's a house locally with Brunswick equipment (I don't know what kind) that the scoring definitely enters into it.

    Normally, if you strike, the sweep comes down, and the table drops as the scoring occurs, and then the table goes up, and comes back down with a new set of pins, and the sweep raises. Typical behavior in most houses.

    But, if you are scoring "no-tap", then after the first ball, the sweep comes down, and if the scorer detects that there are zero or one pins left, then the table never comes down the first time, and the sweep clears the lane, and you get credit for a strike, then the table drops the new set of pins for the next rack.

    This is different from a local AMF house that always picks up (or attempts to pick up) any remaining wood regardless of scoring system (regular or no-tap), so in no-tap, you have to wait while it picks up the lone pin and then sets it back down, and then automatically sweeps it and sets up a new rack for the next bowler.
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He got a bit miffed when I reminded him that we weren't discussing no-tap. I then tried to explain how, even if the scoring system screamed at the top of its electronic lungs that the table didn't need to come down for a detection stroke on a strike ball, that the machine HAD to because it didn't know any better. Only with an upgraded chassis would it know to simply sweep the deck and spot a fresh rack. Furthermore, another local house with the same machines (82-70s) and later scoring (Accuscore XL) doesn't have sweep reverse or short strike cycle.

    My contention is that it's the chassis that allows these functions. How far off am I? Is it chassis? Is it scoring? Is it both? Neither?

  • #2
    Re: Is it chassis or is it scoring?

    It is the pinspotter chassis that allows this....

    80/70 MP was the 1st to do this.

    82/70 SS chassis with Omega Tek or AMF XOP board allows this.

    The scoring gives the info....the chassis runs the pinspotter.


    Even Magic Score will interface to short cycles.


    • #3
      Re: Is it chassis or is it scoring?

      shortened strike cycles, and sweep reverse on a gutter or 1 count, happens by the scorer telling the chassis whats left.

      AMF machines only interface with any version AMF as king said, even the original 1976 magic score, or qubica scoring. any other scoring system will not interface, and the table has to go down and feel for pins

      i think the other guy is referring to the brunswick GS series which still the table feels for pins, even on second ball . the only short cycle ive seen on a GS is on a gutter, sweep drops table drops, fingers dont close, sweep and table go back up, just no sweep run through. in no tap, the GS's will feel for pins, not pick up the standing pin and sweep pin off and set new rack.


      • #4
        Re: Is it chassis or is it scoring?

        AMF's generic terminology is "intelligent/non-intelligent pinspotter controllers".

        MP, MP2, MP3, RoboChassis, Super Star MP: All (82/70) Intelligent.

        Solid State (Elco or C23) 5-board chassis: Non-.

        82/70 "A" or "B" Stepper Chassis: Non-.

        82/30 PR6, PR7, 4400, 5850, 6525, 3000: All Non-.

        82/30 MP: Intelligent.

        All 82/70 non-MP's converted with Omega-Tek's MK-70 with Expander: Intelligent.

        It is possible to run intelligent chassis' with AMF scoring, but not utilize the enhanced cycle features.

        By the way, on 82/30's the only enhanced cycles are the strike and foul quick-sweep.


        • #5
          Re: Is it chassis or is it scoring?

          To further add to this post. What you are refering to with the swp drop and swp reverse is known as a "CCD" cycle. (Forgot what ccd ment..i know the word Camera is in there) When you cycle the machine by pressing the "Cycle" button that would be considered an "RPO" cycle. (Respot Pins Only)

          The CCD cycle is a scoring cycle of course. Unless you have 1 type of Accuscore i believe which will score on an RPO cycle.

          Well thats just like your opinion man...


          • #6
            Re: Is it chassis or is it scoring?

            AMF will interface with Mendes scoring for a short cycle.


            • #7
              Re: Is it chassis or is it scoring?

              King is wrong however about the chassis being in charge. Something has to tell the chassis that there is nothing there for a shortened strike cycle otherwise the table would come down to feel for pins.


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