Machine Replacement Advice

[MJA]

Our high-lineage center is currently looking at options to replace our very old Brunswick A machines. AMF currently offers two choices for used machines:

-rebuilt 8270 with 8290 electronics (8270-XL)
-used 8290-XL from the Asian market (about 5 years old)

The 8290-XL is actually cheaper since it is not gone through as much as the rebuilt 8270-XL (AMF claims).

What does everyone think is the best option? Is buying from AMF the best way to go? Does anyone have any experience with recent AMF machine installations? Or is trying to find used 8270s with MP chassis (or Omega-teks) the way to go? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[tinpin]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Stay with your 70 machines whether yo get them from AMF or an independent. I am an old exAMF installer and service tech, and have installed many 70's and a few 90's; and as I told my current boss I would quit if he decided to get 90's. If you go with old 70's, look for serial numbers above 143000. They have all the modifications for smooth operating machines and should come with MP chassis.However, you can put MP chassis on any machine from B model up. Only modifications needed would be if you have auto scoring

[8270king]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Tinpin....he has Brunswick machines.

You will have to replace the kickbacks.

I would take the newest machines I could get.....JMO

Jerry

[tinpin]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

He has to replace kickbacks whether he goes with 70's or 90's. I just hope he doesn't have magicscore with arrays.

[tinpin]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

I'm sorry for that last statement. I was wrong. If he has wooden kickbacs and not armour plate then the kickbacks can be cut with a 10" saw.

[John_Galt]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

We recently bought a couple refurbished /70 machines from a smaller "thrift shop" company.
Apparently, "refurbish" means spray the pinwheel guard red and the bin assembly black, forget to include the chassis, and throw in some /30 sweep assembly and ball return stuff instead of /70.
Oh yeah, and make sure the machines are really old, everything is worn out, and make sure to have stored it outside for a couple years before selling it. Pretty much all that was salvagable out of those machines was the front frame and the backend sans pit.
Other "refurbished" installations I've seen have been a mishmash of parts from various machines.

Last month, we put a scoring system in a new center that had just installed "refurbished" A-2s. Some were mounted on AMF kickbacks, some were mounted on Bruns kickbacks, deck chutes were duct-taped, various generations of deck shields and rakes on them, etc.
Oh, and the company that sold and installed them decided they were getting a bum deal toward the end of the installation, so the installer messed-up the wiring at the cannon plugs and left. It was fun figuring out how to hook them up.
The center had to bring in yet another company to complete the installation and ring-in.

Moral of the story: Go with a company who's name you recognize and trust. Go over your contract very carefully. Cheapest deal probably isn't the best deal. Nobody wants to be at odds with the company who you're purchasing from.

C

[John_Galt]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

How did this happen? When I read the first post nobody had responded. When I posted my response I'm like 5th in line here!

[tinpin]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Wrenchman, check with US Bowling out in California. I have done some installs for them, both machines and scoring, and they are very honest people to deal with.
Last I talked to them, they had some 152000 series machines in stock. In fact we at my house thought about purchasing them, but my old 30's are running so good, we decided we needed to use the money for synthetic lanes,gutters bumpers,etc.

[deadwood_dup1]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Wrench: If you have a high linage center, why would you want to deal all the headaches of installing used AMF machines. After all the horror stories of installs why would you even consider? Our sister center got 70 rebuilts put in when they pulled the 30's out and the first night of league after the install they had 100 calls. I heard the first ball that was thrown went up the pbl and the wratchet pulley went flyin down the pinsetter asile. HAHAHA...

Stick with whats right. Why re-train yourself on tinker toys? Get yourself some A-2's w/ accelerators [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] Do it right.

deadwood

[ModelTech]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Just my opinion,
How about the Via MC2? Base price starts at about $7,500 USD, for a BRAND NEW machine, shipped from the factory. I was told that, "back in the day", AMF sold the 82-70 for 20 - 30 THOUSAND! Man, what a mark-up!

Hey, they take 'em all over the country, set 'em up and play "pro" with them all the time. I'd say the Chinese have done well by those machines. Beautiful aluminum castings with no "flash" to cut yourself on, a quick-disconnect ball return, 8 second strike cycle. Even for TEN grand, I'd say that's a deal. I think you're going to see these a LOT in the near future. A guy could even have one in his HOUSE, for that kind of money! LOL !

Doug

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

what are you going to do with your A setters??

[8270king]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Deadwood.....quit talking about how good Brunswick is until you have worked on them for a couple of years.......maybe some detector issues or a 1 to 1 change will open your eyes to the fact that AMF is a superior piece of machinery.

Stuck......VIA is UNPROVEN.......people in the industry say the trade show stuff is nice.....however the real stuff is questionable.....it has been posted on the forum here that their manuals are written in CHINESE only.

Jerry

[MJA]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Tinpin: We have Qubica scoring and wooden kickbacks. (in bad shape)

Deadwood: We are a small chain with all 8270 machines except this center. That is why if we change machines they will definitely be AMF.

My feeling is that if I can find some really good quality used machines I would be crazy to spend the money for new. Am I wrong?

[deadwood_dup1]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Queen: whatever....

Ive worked on 70's long enough to know that there a superior quality POS!

deadwood

[Kat]

Re: Machine Replacement Advice

Originally posted by Wrench Man:


My feeling is that if I can find some really good quality used machines I would be crazy to spend the money for new. Am I wrong?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Take a good look at companies like US Bowling and such. I've heard many horror stories (2 centers here in this area) of centers having many problems with rebuilt pinsetters from AMF. Distributors were poorly rebuilt (perhaps done in the dark) ratchet wheels falling off, spray paint drips, bad bearings, and such. In that case, you're paying extra $$$ for essentially a used machine. I'm sure the other brokers out there can provide the machines cheaper which then you can use leftover $$$ for parts inventory.

Just my opinion though.