C ontinous Cycle

[Wally]

Ok to start off this only happens on WeD nights during our Classic league...you know the kind the ones that have been bowling since "before you were a twinkle in your momma's eye" on the same team with the center manager..
well over on lane 31 (8270c) every week same team ..a ball gets pined against the cushion by a pin jamed against the return door..and sure enough..."CONTIONIOUS CYCLE LANE 31 PLEASE SIT ON LANE EVEN IF YOU HAVE OTHER CALLS AND DONT BOTHER FIXING ANYTHING ELSE OR YOUR FIRED"...

now i have looked at everthing on this machine..door pressure...carpet riding...bad pin...kickback...everthing. I have told the bowlwers that it was simply the luck of the draw..murphys law.... am i right? or is it something Im missing?

[Mike Stalker]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Wally: check your cushion block for wear. (ball door side) Also check the carpet guide (angle)to see if it may be bent or loose.

Bounceplate and/or support damage.

This past summer I had a couple of lanes do what you've described. One lane was block damage and the other was a synthetic cushion (which is very thick) coupled with a bent carpet guide (angle).

Hope this helps.
Mike

[8270king]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Tighten up the spring on the cushion shock.....put the shock in a vise......and stick a screwdriver in the spring, and rotate the screwdriver and move the collar up after the spring is compressed.

Jerry

[Wally]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

tried all that..I did a rebuilt on the pit..bounce plate and shocks...cushion..ball door..the works
try again

[Joe]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

This might be off the wall but if you've done everything talked about so far without luck I'll throw it out here. Check to see if you have a rubber rivot exposed on the door side of the tail plank, sometimes resin balls will stick in the corner due to static if this rivot is exposed and if your shock is weak just might be enough to cycle the machine. Good luck

Joe
[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[deadwood_dup1]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Pins in the door are a pain in the a$$. If you have triggering than disconnect your Start Switch. Other than that Queen has the idea on this one. I use a 5/8 wrench though, works better and wont slip on ya. But those pins in the door really are the only problem that cant be fixed. Sometimes i find em up the lift rods. Then I gotta climb in the machine to pull em out. Id tell your GM that you got better things to do than sit on a machine and wait for the inevitiable. There is nothing you can do to fix that problem really. Its physics.

deadwood

[Ted]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Check behind the cushion facing for worn hard rubber, cushion plank, or soft rubber. If it is a particular ball - size it - may be too small diameter!

[John_Galt]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

If all else fails -
disconnect your SS and install electronic triggering. Then all you have is an occasional ball call.

Just kidding! How really closely have you looked at the cushion shock? Have you tried several different ones? All new hardware at the top and bottom?
How's your 22878 Angle? You've tried different bounce plates and pit supports?

I don't know if it's possible, but have you got a /30 hanger weldment in that machine?

But... the real problem is the pin getting wedged against the door, isn't it.
I'm sure you've already looked for anything unique about this ball exit compared to all your others. Have you got a urethane paddle? Is it ripped a little on the 31 side?

This is surely a frustrating situation for you - being that you've tried everything you can think of, BT hasn't offered an immediate solution, and then you've got numbnuts on the loudspeaker commanding you to sit on that machine!
Hope you find it, we're all with you!

C

[Mike Stalker]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Swap cushions with lane 29, try a different equasion.

Chad, no go on the 30 hanger. Balls would be in the P.E.W.

[John_Galt]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Rereading your original post, Ted's suggestion makes a lot of sense.

I find it hard to believe that the same team bowls on the same pair every week though...

Anyway, if one of these fossils has been throwing the same ball for 30 years, it might well be too small, or at least really incredibly filthy oily so it can't get any traction on your carpet belt, in which case it would stay against the cushion and migrate toward the ball exit side, wouldn't it.

Next time this happens, on 2nd ball (because this geezer certainly isn't throwing strikes) grab it out of the machine and soak it in carb cleaner until it's time for him/her to throw it again, then let them throw it another frame and then give it another soak. Repeat until you wipe it dry and your rag isn't disgusting.

By doing this you may solve the problem, keep the bowlers from waiting, and save yourself from a lot of nasty pit work.

If it's this simple, isn't it sort of bittersweet?

[TheGMan143]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Yep...done that.

Our place is in an area with a pretty high geriatric population... and I swear some of these people are still throwing the old black ugly Score-More that Uncle Shwonkie gave them for their 16th birthday...about 55-1/2 years ago.

I soak a rag with alcohol and wipe down the offending ball a few times... clears up a lot of stupid ball calls.

We had a bowler that threw his highest score ever after I pulled this stunt... it was in the 3rd game, after 2 previous games worth of ball calls every time his ball landed in the pit... on either side of the pair. His average was around 104, and he shot something like 110-107-265... and he was told the probable reason why after the game was over. He said that he never had the ball wiped off or cleaned in any way as long as he had it. Since then, he regularly cleans his ball with alcohol (same old stupid ball)... but since then, I've never had a problem with that ball causing jams, and his average went up by almost 50 pins. Now if we can just talk him (and about 200 other bowlers) into buying a new ball(or at least cleaning the old one regularly), and if he does, letting me meticulously dissect his old one with an ax... we'd really be doing good...

[Wally]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

ive cheked for anything unique and did not find anything..the entire bounce place and carpte are new including all hardware and shocks...the ball door seems to be exactly like the others..Im just guessing its the BALL and the bowler...it is an old resin ball ...just the luck of the draw thats what Im guessing..Im not going to fight them anymore...next week (short of finding a problem) I am going to tell him its the ball

[triac]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Originally posted by deadwood:
Id tell your GM that you got better things to do than sit on a machine and wait for the inevitiable. There is nothing you can do to fix that problem really. Its physics.

deadwood

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you take this advice you’re most likely to get fired or loose the respect of your GM and coworkers as a qualified mechanic.

Ignorant excuses are just a copout that will only hold your head above water just long enough for that shark to bite you on the ass.

Anybody who really understands physics knows that many physical limitations can be overcome by other means such as increase or decrease in force, friction and the timing of both.

Many great suggestions from the BT gang on reducing the odds (probability not physics) to your simultaneous problem.

Just my .02 cents…A little more info on what type of ball return you have will help us troubleshoot pins in the door…ie…PBL lites, kickers. Make sure the cushion is in perfect condition and that you are not using rubber rivets, the blue urethanes from AMF work pretty well against most resin balls. Also check that the upper holes that the shock mounts to (that Chad mentioned) are not worn out.

Good Luck, Triac

[triac]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

Originally posted by triac:

Ignorant excuses are just a copout that will only hold your head above water just long enough for that shark to bite you on the ass.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or in Jerry’s case…the parasite on the shark will bite his snickerdoodle. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Sorry King, just couldn't resist…Had to beat Gman to the punch. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[the old dirt man]

Re: C ontinous Cycle

WALLY,
I have read your posts a few times and can't figure out what your talking about. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]
1- you stated you have 8270-c's
2- you keep saying ball door,ball door,ball door pressure??. DO YOU MEAN PADDLE?
3- do you have 82/70 with ball doors? LOL.
4- do you have 82/70 that came from the uk with the 460 ball return?
most of the time when the pins get caught together or crossed under or in front of the cushion it does not cause a continuous cycle?
maybe 1 time out of 25?
and a ball against the cushion usually doesn't cause a continuous unless theres more then one ball.
are you sure your cushion shock bracket is not on upside down 000 029 624 [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] that will let it cycle real easy because it moves the cushion forward and it tears up the bottom of the cushion,and you could get ball damage also!