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  • Sure-Pik relay sockets

    I just got done replacing an 11 pin socket in a sure-pik power box. They really suck having to do when they burn out. Are there any alternatives to this set-up that are currently out there? Please let me know if there is.
    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

    Yes there is... and I PROMISE that I'll get a picture of it for you tonight when I'm down the lanes. Instead of changing the socket, you pull and replace 4 wires... even during a league, you can change the setup out in less than 5 minutes... and it only takes about 5-10 minutes to make. The only catch is that I only have info on converting single-relay control boxes. The 3-relay units can be done the same way, but I don't have the schematics for it.

    It involves completely eliminating the socket, and it works GREAT. Ours have been set up like this for about 10 years or more. The only problem you will ever have with it is when the relay actually fails, and not the electrical connections. We hardly ever change out relays now because of problems, and we've never had one fail from socket pin burnout. It will allow the relay contacts to run cooler and longer, and just about eliminates contact burn.

    Check back later on for a picture, a schematic, and instructions. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
    <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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    • #3
      Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

      We have installed "test sockets" 11 pin sockets from our local electronics store. I keep two of them hanging up with the four wires labeled with masking tape. The test socket is about three inches square and they cost about $10.00. I don't even need my glasses to wire them up.
      &quot;Gun control is the policy of tyrants&quot;
      Rep. Rob Bishop (R-UT)

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      • #4
        Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

        Thanks Gman. Looking forward to your post! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

          I'M IN THE PROCESS OF WIRING UP A CONTROL BOX USING A SOLID STATE 82-30, TABLE - SWEEP, RELAY FROM BOWLTRONICS. IN TALKING WITH THEM, THERE SHOULD BE NO TROUBLE WITH IT TAKING THE LOAD THAT IT MAY RUN INTO, ITS ABLE TO TAKE 30 amps. I SHOULD HAVE IT READY IN ABOUT A WEEK OR SO AND WILL TRY AND GET A PICTURE OF IT ASAP.

          THE DOCTOR
          AMF DOCTOR
          The doctor makes house calls.
          http://s427.photobucket.com/home/AMFDOCTOR/index

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

            Well... since the UBB system got a bug up it's tail and basically erased about 1 1/2 hours of posting (because I had more than 8 images), I'll give you the short version, and answer questions as needed...

            Here ya go:
            <div align="center">
            <table width="95%" bgcolor="#999999" border="0"><tr><td> </td><td>Here's the schematic. You will need 1 shurpik relay, about 15-16" of 16/18-ga wire (16ga preferred) in the colors BLUE/GREEN/PINK/ORANGE, 8 BLUE butt-splice connectors (crimp-type), and 4 RED or BLUE insulated (non-insul will work, too) female wire terminals, and electrical tape. I use wire from old machine harnesses... even the older (heavier) table cable wires. You can use all the same color, too... just remember to put labels on them so you remember which one is which...</td></tr></table><table width="95%" bgcolor="#999999" border="0"><tr><td> </td><td>To start, you will need to remove the wire shield from ONE END of all the butt splicers. I usually cut them off with a utility knife, or bump them against the grinding wheel to level the plastic insulation with the metal core (as denoted in the pic by the arrow).</td></tr></table><table width="95%" bgcolor="#999999" border="0"><tr><td> </td><td>Check that they fit the relay pins placing one on to a pin with the short end facing the relay base. It should fit snugly to just slightly loose... I use Turner &amp; Betts butt connectors, but we've used other brands with no problems.</td></tr></table><table width="95%" bgcolor="#999999" border="0"><tr><td> </td><td>To build the wires, assemble them as shown in the picture. Keep in mind that when you crimp them together, the SHORT end of the butt connector stays open, and is not crimped. Also be careful that you leave at least 1/2 the core of the connector uncrimped, to leave room for the relay pins. The long wires are about 9", and the short jumpers are about 3". Strip the wires just shy of 1/4" and twist them together before inserting them and crimping the connector. Attach a female terminal to the other end of the long wire.</td></tr></table><table width="95%" bgcolor="#999999" border="0"><tr><td>When your wire set is complete, attach them to the relay by pushing the short ends of the butt connectors on to the pins in the order below. Look at the bottom of the relay... the pins are usually numbered. If not, use the schematic to locate the correct pins.
            - GREEN to Pin#2
            - BLUE to Pin# 10
            - The LONG END of the ORANGE wire to Pin#6, the 1st jumper to Pin#1, and the 2nd to Pin#11
            - The LONG END of the PINK wire to Pin#7, the 1st jumper to Pin#9, and the 2nd to Pin#3.
            - Pins 4, 5, and 8 are not used.
            The connectors will cause the relay pins to bend out slightly, because they fit rather close together. This is OK, but be careful when pushing them on that you don't accidentally bend a pin over or break it off from forcing them down too hard. All you need is about 1/2 of the pin or so inside the butt connector to be attached well.
            </td></tr><tr><td><div align="center"> </div></td></tr></table><table width="95%" bgcolor="#999999" border="0"><tr><td>When all the terinals are wired, wrap electrical tape around the connectors, starting at the body of the relay, and stopping just below the tails of the butt connectors, with at least 2 layers. The connectors need to be well insulated, as the unused terminals will be energized when the unit is not running, and will cause a short if they are allowed to touch the box or another bare connector. If you want to get fancy, you can also use the 2" diameter heat-shrinkable tubing in place of the tape.</td></tr><tr><td><div align="center"> </div></td></tr></table><table width="95%" bgcolor="#999999" border="0"><tr><td>Once the relay mod is done, you can install it:
            REMOVE THE FUSES and SHUT OFF THE POWER FEED to the shur-pik!!
            To locate all the wires needed, you can use the steps below to locate the terminals, then follow the wires until you locate each one that goes to the old relay socket. Remove the wires ONE AT A TIME, and replace them with the new relay wiring. Refer to the diagram if you need to locate the correct TB# terminal strips. The actual terminal numbers are stamped on the terminal strips. The only variation I have noted are: the green wire... it returns to the body of the shur-pik... usually any of the end terminals (#'s 1 and 5) of the strips will work. The other is that on some units, TB3 is mounted on the SIDE of the box instead of the bottom... it doesn't affect the way it's wired, though.

            - GREEN to TB3, terminal #1
            - BLUE to TB2, terminal #3
            - ORANGE to TB3, terminal #4
            - PINK to TB3, terminal #2
            </td><td><div align="center">
            </div></td></tr></table><table width="95%" bgcolor="#999999" border="0"><tr><td>After installing, replace the fuses, power on, and check for correct operation. Once the mod is in place and working, the old socket and wires can be either tucked back in the box, or removed, whatever you prefer.</td></tr></table>
            </div>

            That's it... You now have to remove just 4 wires to replace the whole relay assembly... no soldering required. To give you an idea of the longevity of this mod; when I took the picture of the installed relay (above)I checked the installation date: October 1998. The little stinker has been in there over 4 years without a whimper... and shows very little contact wear. We have some that are on their 6th year... maybe longer.

            The wire harnesses are reusable... If you need to rebuild it, remove the tape and wires from the old relay, pop them on to a new one, and re-wrap it with electrical tape... it's ready to go back into the machine. The connectors also eliminate the risk of too much heat being applied to the relay terminals by soldering them, causing melting or distortion of the case and operating components.

            Hope that helps... feel free to pipe up if you have questions... Good luck!

            <font size=-1 face="Arial">[i]Boy am I glad HTML works in this area... that would have been a BITCH with UBBCode...</font>
            <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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            • #7
              Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

              AMFDoctor: You can wire it like that using surplus triac-type solid state relays. You use a 30-amp triac block. Feed the 24VAC from the transformer through a small rectifier (radio shack, about $1.50), and then through a resistor to drop the power down to around 18V. Run it through the trigger terminals of the triac, and connect the power side of the triac across the pink and orange leads from the relay. Mount the triac to the side of the box, and you're done. The whole setup costs about $6 to $10... Reason why I've never done it is that the triacs don't have as long of a service life as a standard shur-pik relay, and they generate an unnecessary amount of heat while running.

              Oh, here's one more piece to the mod... if you want to make a quick-disconnect harness for it, make these, install them between the terminal blocks and the relay mod, and ziptie them to the box so they won't pull off the terminals. They're made from 9" of the same wires as the mod, 4 more female wire terminals, and 4 matching insulated male terminals:

              <div align="center"></div>

              Class dismissed. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
              <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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              • #8
                Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

                Great work GMAN......impressive to say the least.

                Jerry

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                • #9
                  Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

                  G-Man, that's fantastic! Thanks for taking the time to post your mod. I'm gonna try this out as soon as I can.
                  Take care.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

                    I got looking at our 'piks the other day, and I realized there may be another issue... a couple of them have the pink wire connections running to TB1. Again, ours were converted over 10 years ago, so I don't have any grounds for comparison from the socket to the mod, and I sure as heck don't remember exactly how the wires originally ran.

                    Be careful that you are tracing each wire back to the socket as you install the mod. I have a pinout table of the entire sure-pik box wiring positions/functions available if anyone needs it.
                    <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

                      G Man...great upgrade! Thanks for posting it. I just started working in a center with 24 Sure Piks. I've had the newer AMF power lifts in the centers I've worked in, so I guess I'm regressing in a technological standpoint, but it's an nice challenge. Several of our Sure Piks had no machine control at all - they were turned on aux in the morning and turned off at night. My project now is to rewire and modify all 24 control boxes. Three have been done so far and they work great! Can't wait to get the rest of them done. While on the subject of Sure Piks, if anyone has any lying around cluttering up their storage area in the center please see my post in the classifieds.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

                        russb,
                        you should talk to the 82/70 king
                        I'LL bet he has more sure stuck parts then
                        AMF does. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                        I think he has a sure stuck warehouse. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]
                        if things aren't going right just use a bigger hammer! DIRT

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

                          Originally posted by the old dirt man:
                          russb,
                          you should talk to the 82/70 king
                          I'LL bet he has more sure stuck parts then
                          AMF does. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                          I think he has a sure stuck warehouse. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]
                          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I DO [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

                          JK

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

                            Well, I can offer some tips on shur-piks... they're badmouthed a lot, but when properly adjusted and maintained, they're about as reliable a machine as you could ever want.

                            Keep the lower pulley shaft &amp; bearing lubricated to prevent it from seizing on the shaft... these are commonly forgotten, and since they're under the floor, they can be subject to dampness (especially if you're bedded over a concrete slab floor). A small squirt of WD-40 every few months works nicely.

                            Keep the leather strap clean... a wipedown every week or so with a cloth moistened with a little alcohol works nicely. Same for the lift belt... if it gets shiny/polished, clean it, then hold a piece of sandpaper or a wire brush lightly against it, then wipe it down again to bring the 'grippy' surface back.

                            Use V-belts instead of the common 'round' belt for the drive pulleys... they're more resistant to slipping, breaking, and popping off on startup and ball contact with the belt (the time of the highest drive tension).

                            Clean (wipe w/ alcohol) and inspect the track covers regularly. They commonly get a flat spot worn in them just above 1/2 way up, which will result in the balls stalling and spinning on them instead of rolling up smoothly. You can swap them left-to-right and top-to-bottom to reposition a flat spot down the track farther, where it isn't as critical to have a solid grip, extending the life of the track covers.

                            On the 'lazy susan' (round tray) 'piks, make sure the end clamps for the round metal tray tracks are intact (located just inside of the exit)... if they break off or come loose, they will cause nicking of the balls as they exit the lift. 'Arrow' lifts don't have this problem.

                            Get a can of 100% silicone spray lubricant, and keep it with your shur-pik parts inventory... Apply a small amount to the back of the leather where it contacts the edge of the pressure plate (lift up the pressure plate away from the leather)... this area needs to have the leather slide smoothly against the plate. If it doesn't, the plate can 'hang up' on the leather and not return to it's normal resting position, which usually causes intermittent 'undergrounds'. Don't use oil or an excessive amount of the silicone... oil soaks the leathr and can weaken it, and a little bit of silicone goes a long way. Avoind overspraying it on to the lift belt or track covers, too.

                            Most important is adjustment... there has to be a balance of pressure to friction between the lift belt, the leather, and the pressure plate, which can sometimes take a while to achieve. Make notes of where the springs and spring shafts are located on a properly-running unit, and tape it to the top of the control box cover... it will save you a lot of time in getting it back up and running smoothly if you have to disassemble it.

                            I'll post a copy of the full wire plan/pinout for a single-relay shur-pik as soon as I get it from the lanes... it's handy to have if you're rewiring 'em.

                            Good luck!
                            <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Sure-Pik relay sockets

                              We started rewiring spik boxes and replacing the riveted 11-pin socket with 11-pin DIN mounted relay bases.

                              Certainly more reliable (if you get a good relay base), and much, much easier to pull out if necessary.

                              I like the idea of solid state relays (we recently tried that with the backend relays - but that's another story).

                              Andrew.

                              Comment

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