Vantage Super clutch

[OneWorldSport]

Hi all

Can anyone help me with my little problem. I recently came across some super clutches and i threw them on my machines with great anticipation and the damn machines have rejected them like no tomorrow. I have done everything to them. On a couple of lanes i had to add another 2 washers on them just to get enough clutch tension. I threw 3 AMF super clutches on at the other place i work at with no problems. Mine are fouling up at the 6 - 10 line and on some occasions the 3-4 area but i have got extreme tension on them just so they index properly [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] this has really annoyed me. I used these clutches where i used to work and they were perfect, Now the damn things just wont work properly. So now i am contimplating putting the origional clutches back on just to get the machines stopping the pile ups. Is there some kind of trick you guys have done with these before or do i just go back to the way they were and be done with the simplified clutch?????

Thanks guys

Peter

[TheGMan143]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

If the're the ones with the stack of washers that look like a pinion gear with a stop blade hanging off of it, this is what you'll need to do:

1. Remove all the clutches from the machines & take them to your workbench. Lay them out neatly & count how many complete clutches are there. Add any that you may still have in your inventory,

2. Reach under bench.

3. Pull out trashcan.

4. Make sure can is not overfilled, or it will cause problems with the next step. If full, remove and discard spent bag, then install a new one, then proceed to step 5.

5. Using your forearm (or other suitable object) as a plow, scrape all the parts into said trashcan.

6. Return the trashcan to it's original position.

7. Go to your parts inventory.

8. Pull out an equal number (see step #1) of complete AMF original-style clutch assemblies, or enough parts to build same.

9. Install clutches as per machine manual.

10. Smile for the headaches you just avoided.

I like Vantage parts as a rule, and use a heck of a lot of them... these are an extreme exception to the rule.

[WI Adam]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Sports... check your stop blade (both the arm on the trip stop rod and the arm on the pinion), and check your trip rod/cable, you'll have to adjust them after switching from the old style (the blade on the pinion is much different than on the old style)... if you dont have good stop blades (the split piece on the trip stop rod) it will stick, then the clutch will have to force its way through the blade, or it will slide through it (causing double indexing, or it will finish indexing with the pin still on the end of the distrib!! (just make sure the split blade isnt out of shape, or worn down too much), also... you may want to put some grease on the the stop blade, and last but not least if you need that much clutch tension something else is probably messed up... I havent been working on these machines long and I'm not the head mechanic- or am I even close to being one, I havent done that many parts changes to the machines, but I see most of the problems before anyone else. All I know is that where I work we have very few issues with the vantage super clutch... I hate to see good parts go to waste.... One mans trash is another's treasure, I guess....

G man ... what do you have against the super clutch?

[Rep]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

I never tried them personally. But to me I'd stick with the old ones. I work in a 64 lane center and we dont have clutch problems too too often and even so, I can completely rebuild one changing everything in like 15 minutes tops. But like a lot of other things in this business to each his own, what works for one may not work for another

[8270king]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

To simplify my pal Gman's response.....

Vantage super clutch is no good.

Can you explain a clutch assy. with constant friction [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

JK

[pat]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

We have Super Clutches in our ten lane center. They work fine, but then we are a very low linage house. I think that if we had a lot of play I would get the orrigional AMF clutch back on.

I did try to switch one time and I think that the Super Clutch assembly uses a diffenrent Pinion gear. I think the timeing is different or something.

I know when I switched I also needed to change the pinion gear I was using then I could make the other clutch work.

[8270king]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Timing is no different....

JK

[Coors]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

yeah the super clutches are hit or miss. i think they give you 5 spring washers (2 1/2 coils). i always at another two or four washers and have no more problems.

i have 40lanes, about half are supers. i feel that cuz of the smaller radius of the friction disc the tension is touchy. where as the original clutch with the big radius (bigger the radius, the faster the friction disc spins) you have alot more forgiveness with the originals, especially with Envirobushings friction disc <<--plug.

[pat]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Thanks again King I wrote this to find our about the timeing. One of my projects this summer will be to get as many back the AMF clutch. I see a lot of problems with the super clutch. Not the least of which is the area of the friction disk.

Thanks
Pat

[Pin_Head]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Well Sporty-Spice ohh crap i mean sports-central put 3 simplified AMF clutches on at my center and they run PERFECT, i cant see what the problem with them is??????

[8270king]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Originally posted by Pin_Head:
Well Sporty-Spice ohh crap i mean sports-central put 3 simplified AMF clutches on at my center and they run PERFECT, i cant see what the problem with them is??????

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With all due respect.....the idea of a clutch is not to provide power to a device at all times....hence a worm gear that slips.......

Super &amp; simplified clutches run HOT.....use a pinion with roller bearings if you have them.....they run cooler then the gennie pinion and sleeve.

Jerry

[Ed Fox]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Well…here is my opinion. The surface area is too small and the adjustment is too sensitive. I had a “B” tech member send me a version of his super clutch and it was much better then the ones on the market but it still was to sensitive to the adjustment. If you want a better running clutch yet want to stay with the OEM design e-mail me and the first 3 e-mails will receive a “EBN” Enviro clutch kit. It takes the clutch/pinion to the simplest/smoothest possible operation.

ebnjoe@aol.com

Charlie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[AMFDOCTOR]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Using both the AMF Simplified &amp; the Vantage Super Clutch as we all know can be a Super pain in the donkey. From my point of view the main problem is after we go through the trouble of setting one up we come back in a couple of days only to find the clutch has a bazillion pounds of tenision and is running hot. Correct?? Both systems are basically the same in design. One uses a spring to set the tension and the other uses spring washers and they are held in place with a nut. If you can hang in there I'll try and explain what I've found out about them. 1. The back plate must be FLAT and very smooth with no paint on it, bare metal. I use fine emery paper to accomplish this so the disk can turn freely. If it isn't flat, as you tighten the outer plate on the disk, it will want to hang up as it turns, stall and get very hot. I put a mark on the outer edge so I can make sure that it's turning. One big problem with the Vant. unit is that the back plate is painted. The disk has a lot of problems trying to turn on the paint so get it down to bare metal and FLAT and polished. 2. When putting the outer plate on I prefer the AMF one because it locks on to the shaft for a better drive rather than it slipping when you use the washer that comes with the S.C.. 3. Here comes what I feel is where all the problems come from. Most people have better results with the AMF unit over the Vant.. If you read the AMF instructions it says to tighten the nut all the way down to get the proper tension, lock it down. On the Vant. you tighten the spring washers till you get the tension. A day later, hot and over tension. If you look closely you will see that the clutch rotation is counter clockwise and when you tighten the nut you go clockwise. BINGO. Every time the clutch goes around and hits the stop blade it jars the nut and it tightens itself up little by little till we get what we all know, hot and over tension. Every nyloc nut that I have put on will not stay in place or after turning it a number of times it aint worth a pot to --- in. Using the standard AMF rear plate, the standard one from the big disk, an Enviro bushing pinion that is set up for no sleeve in it, the special Enviro small clutch disk, AMF outer plate, 3 to 5 spring washers, a nut, and here's the trick a collar from a PBL mouse trap with a set screw. 4. When setting this all up, first make sure that the two tits on the pinion gear are flush with the plate. If not the disk will drag on then and not turn freely. The plate is flat and smooth. Put the disk on the shaft, followed by the outer AMF plate, spring washers 3 to 5, the collar,with the set screw going on to one of the flats on the shaft and then the nut. I've started usunig the regular nut on some machines now. Tighten the nut against the collar and spring washers. Once you get the proper tension set and the distributor is working properly tighten the set screw on to the shaft and it works. The tension should not varry. Mine have been holding and I have been keeping a close eye on them since I started doing this. I'll try and get a picture up as soon as possible. Any comments or questions on anything are more than welcome.

The Doctor

[8270king]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Doctor....the reason all the new design clutches run hot is........CONSTANT FRICTION......

Stahl's makes the best simplified clutch.....but the original clutch is the best.....

Just knock the rivets off the plastic piece and then no stop blade hang up.

I do not have to "keep an eye" on any stock clutch assy.

JK

[Ed Fox]

Re: Vantage Super clutch

Just some more info. For any one that has tried the Enviro bushings in their pinion gears and had troubles with it. We recently determined that if you are running the OEM design AMF clutch that you need to use the standard pinion bushing that requires that the steel sleeve is still used. Part #N56016. If your running any of the super clutches that are on the market you need to use the special one piece bushing that eliminates the sleeve. Part #N56016S.

Just thought I would share the news.

Charliem [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]