Pin standing on its head?

[WI Adam]

At the center where I work we have PBLs updated with Stahl's Seventy's "Tuffy parts" air returns (Makes the kicker/paddle air driven (small air compressor under one machine per pair powers the works)) All in all a wonderful system.... we're down to only 2 types of ball calls now...
1. If a pin (usually more than one) are SIDEWAYS in front of the ball door - as in laying completely outside the ball door...
2. If a pin gets into the return and stands vertically on its head... in a way it cant be kicked out by the paddle (only happens when the pin ends up standing on its head??) any tips to get rid of either of these? I know our returns are pretty rare, but maybe the problems are the same?

Last but not least I've never seen an original AMF return... so if anyone could point me to a good source of pictures and info on how it works, I'd be greatful.... Thanks

[Rep]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

By originals do you mean kicker ball returns? If so I can scrounge around and see if I can find ya some pics, or if not I could always charge the cam up and take it to work as we have 64 lanes worth of headaches... erm kickers [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[WI Adam]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

I mean kickers or PBLs... havent seen either [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] Just know what we have, thats all

[Rep]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

Okay. Kickers were out for ages, I believe they were even on 82-30's. I know I can get ya pics of them, if not online I'll just have to snap some off at work [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[8270king]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

I have seen the air exit.....

I believe your problem is the the paddle goes from one side to another very slowly.....this gives the pins time to entirely get in......speed up the paddle on its side to side travel.

JK

[Kat]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

I've got PBLs with LBS and I have this call about once a month. What happens is theres a pin close to the exit and a ball enters the exit with great speed from rolling across the entire bounce board and shoves the pin into the exit completely. Since the LBS will allow the rudder to move to opposite site (for light balls sake) the ball and pin get in there. Then the weight of the pin actuates the ratchet and the lift arm inverts the pin either head first of butt first and voila, instant ball call. It's one of those things I attribute to **** happening and nothing you could do for it. I guess 1 a month isn't so bad.

I've yet to see one of those Tuffy Air exits in action, as I've heard they're really good. Maybe someone who has them can post some pics.

[Louie_IV]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

Originally posted by Rep:
Kickers were out for ages, I believe they were even on 82-30's.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Rep...LOL...yes they were on 8230's. We work on about 128 8230's and about 90% of them have kickers. Many 8230's were converted from vertical ball lifts to kicker systems after the kicker system came out for the 8270. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Originally posted by WI Adam:
Last but not least I've never seen an original AMF return... so if anyone could point me to a good source of pictures and info on how it works, I'd be greatful.... Thanks

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

This is AMF's original ball lift system. It is called the Vertical Ball Lift. The ball doors were literally DOORS! Each machine had a door that the ball had to open to get into the lift system. Then the ball just rolled under the belt and went up. It didn't need anything to lift the ball to the belt like Kickers or PBL's do. Gravity took the ball to the belt. This is a very neat ball lift system to watch.

Louie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[amfpinboy]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

Nice picture! It has to be an 82/30 4400. Check out the SA sw's !

[WI Adam]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

wow, thanks for the pic and info... But I have no clue as to even the original PBL systems, no clue what a light ball sensor, or ratchet... (ANYTHING in the original system) is ... our systems are great, just 2 little air pistons (one for the kicker one for the paddle) one little air compressor per pair, some air line, a button on the kicker that controls the kicker... and the little white box on the back of the machine) (I'll ask/see if I can get some pics to post) but in the event I ever need a job at another center, chances are they wouldnt have the tuffy exits... I'd be taking a leap of faith.... of all the things I'm most ignorant about... its the original returns, and the front end mechanical stuff... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

As for the tuffy systems... I think they're great.

[Louie_IV]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

Originally posted by amfpinboy:
Nice picture! It has to be an 82/30 4400. Check out the SA sw's !

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Very good guess! But, as the old dirt man taught me, it is older than a 4400! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] Because it has the old Latch chassis and different motors and a different sweep among other things. I can't remember exactly what it is though. Maybe a 3600? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] Crud can explain it. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Louie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]

[amfpinboy]

Re: Pin standing on its head?

Louie, It's been over twenty-five years since I worked on a 4400. They were at Elm Lanes at exit 105 on the G.S. Parkway. I can't remember the name of the town. I worked there PT on the weekends for about a month.
I still have nightmares about nylon dist. gears and solid pinwheels. And rod toggles! And chassis's run by a bicyle chain! 5850's had a real chassis and only one SA sw.. Much more civilized.