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  • new problem for me

    i have a lane where after i sweep the pins off the lane and the sweep goes back to its up position and then the lane cycles on its own what should i check for

    kg

  • #2
    Re: new problem for me

    Hello Elijah!

    We need more details:

    1. What kind of machine are you running, 82-30, 8270, M/P chassis? SS?, C-model?

    2. Continuous cycle, usually means a cam switch is stuck, or needs adjusting. Sometimes the chassis is the culprit.

    I quote you:

    "-snip- ...where after I sweep the pins off the lane... snip-"

    Does it happen when YOU hit the sweep "run" switch? Because you can stop it short or long of zero, and you throw the machine out of time (happens on our 82-30's all the time).

    If you're specific, there are quite a few able techs on this forum that can, and will help you!

    [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] Good Luck!

    Doug

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    • #3
      Re: new problem for me

      Your problem is your ball triggering is behind the sweep.

      To clear the deck....put on 2nd ball.......turn off table switch.....cycle.....when machine sweeps and returns to 270.....hit stepper button......sweep will run to 0.....turn T switch on.....this works for SS chassis only.

      Jerry

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      • #4
        Re: new problem for me

        sorry guys i have a mp chasis on this lane and its a 82-70 it happens no matter where you stop the sweep and i just recently checked all cams in our house i checked the sweep cams again tonight and they are ok. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

        kg

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        • #5
          Re: new problem for me

          You said that you checked the cams, but made no mention of the camswitches. A faulty SA can cause this problem. We have SS chassis, and most times a weird problem like this turns up, it winds up being a camswitch problem. The MP chassis is even more sensitive to changes or malfunctions in the camswitches.

          The camswitches on these machines get to be a problem with age. Since the switches only operate under chassis signal voltages and currents, there isn't enough 'kick' in the circuit to cause a small arc that will burn any contaminants off of the contacts. Over time, gunk and oxidation can build up on the contact pads, causing them to not connect, or sometimes to 'bridge'. They also get cracked housings from vibration, which can cause the internal components to go out of line and malfunction occasionally.

          As a rule, if you're going to replace camswitches, replace all 3... they're cheap enough, and if one is bad, there's a good chance that the others aren't far behind. Always remove the wires ONE AT A TIME, and place each one in the correct position on the new switch... it'll prevent accidental crosswiring errors that will cause even more problems. Don't forget to reset the cam tolerances with the cam gauge after changing switches... don't take for granted that the new ones will work the same as the old ones.... wear on the actuating pins, slight difference in the switch positioning in relation to the cam follower, and newer switch tolerances will usually come back to haunt you if they're not reset.

          Stuck:

          "Does it happen when YOU hit the sweep "run" switch? Because you can stop it short or long of zero, and you throw the machine out of time (happens on our 82-30's all the time)."

          This isn't as much of an issue on the '70... when you run the sweep manually, you can let go of the 'sweep run' switch as soon as the sweep travels a little past 270, and the machine will return it to electrical/mechanical zero on it's own. Provided it's adjusted correctly, of course.
          <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: new problem for me

            Thanks, "G"!

            I'm curious. Do all '70's/'90's/XL's do the "no-tap" thing? You know, sweep reverses itself after a 7 or 10 pin hit? And on a strike, just sweeps and spots? The C model we had years ago did the "no-tap", but felt for pins on a strike.

            Doug

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            • #7
              Re: new problem for me

              Stuck, any kind of mp chassis will do that as long as it interfaces with the scoring. SS's will also if they're converted to mp's by means of Omega Tek boards or any other method. We have coverted SS's, definately nice to have [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
              All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: new problem for me

                Ah,
                Thanks Rep! As always! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                Doug

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                • #9
                  Re: new problem for me

                  _________________________________________________
                  Origonally posted by Elijah
                  i have a lane where after i sweep the pins off the lane and the sweep goes back to its up position and then the lane cycles on its own what should i check for
                  _________________________________________________

                  Just a thought , sweep an empyt deck and see if the machine cycles.

                  If not, check your start switch above the cushion to see if that assembly is too loose. The pins in the pit touching the cushion may be starting your cycle.
                  Pinspotters do not break down when they are not running!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: new problem for me

                    I'm just a rookie, but I'll take a shot.... We had a machine do this about 3 weeks ago... Middle of league it started resetting its self, ironically it was 9 pin, and the first 3 times it did it it was after a 9 pin strike :p Well, towards the end of league I started getting a few respot calls... it was sweeping them through, by the end of the night the rake ended up getting hit, really annoyed me.... After league I ran the machine through, every means I could think of.... I used the cycle button, I pulled the cushion, I tried to see if the start switch was trigering too easily.... After checking all the back end stuff I ran up front, checked the 10th frame button, and then cycled it from the switches up front (we have the old frameter setup yet)... Well, worked fine until the next morning, the minute they turned the machine on it ran through.... Check to make sure your cycle button or start switch arent sticking, then check 10th frame button, and your manager controls... if all else fails, check chassis wires, especially pindication, I dont know how many times I've seen a pindication plug come loose and start cutting the power to the machine, causing all kinds of problems... next you'd want to see if its the cams/cam switches... And last but not least, if nothing else fails make sure you're getting proper voltages, if the machine cuts out and cuts back in it might be cycling (the same as rapidly switching from instruct-o-mat to run on the frameter, causing a cycle)... Also, I'd like input from veteran mechanics, did I do OK? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] I hate being a rookie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: new problem for me

                      mike we dont use these switches anymore we have ball sencors on our cameras that cycle the machine now so all have been inop for a while now and it was the SA switch guys found that last night wires were hanging on by a thread i guess if i look i will see [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] duh!!!

                      kg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: new problem for me

                        Elijah, glad you found your problem! I wasn't sure if you had ball triggering only or not.

                        Make yourself a log, maybe eight years down the road this will happen again and you can flip to a section in your self log and find a posible solution.
                        Pinspotters do not break down when they are not running!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: new problem for me

                          Hey Guys

                          Just for some general info. I made up a cam switch assembly so I could swap out a suspected bad one for the spare one. Saves time in a pinch.

                          Amf sells one but it is MUCH cheaper to order the parts seperately and put it together yourself.

                          Take off the four screws and nuts, transfer wires, and adjust camswitches.

                          Don't forget to order the bracket if you decide to make the assembly.

                          Regards nuckles [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: new problem for me

                            Yeah, we have 2 of them built up and ready to go. They do indeed come in handy [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
                            All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: new problem for me

                              mike i have one started got the idea from my boss but its only been 2 weeks in the makingstill needs ALOT of work at least 8 more years like you said expecially with the distributers [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] thanks to all for the help

                              Comment

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