many dist jams

[ken.b]

hi guys,
I'M new to this and been trying to learn the 82/70 for the past few months,and came across this site and theres some intersting stuff.
the biggest problem we have are dist jams.
what causes them? I watch them and don't see anything? do these mess up like this all the time
we have 32 alleys and get around 20-30 jams a day on a good day. and pins getting jammed in the table? do these machines always have problems like this. plus we get a bunch of balls caught in the hole and the little roller wheel won't pull it in. is this normal for these machines.
we have more problems,will post later.

[ModelTech]

Re: many dist jams

Hi Ken! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Welcome to Bowl-Tech!

I'm sure the guys will agree, the dist (dizzy) causes probably the most calls, other than light balls in the P.B.L., and sometimes it's a mystery. You watch for half an hour, beautiful, runs perfect. Walk away? "Sweep on 18, sweep on 18," or whatever. Looks like a bunch of puppies all ran up short at the same time. LOL !

Pins stuck in the table, or between the table and bin?

Don't run the machine under power!!

I've seen too many rookies do that, and f*** up the respot links, fingers, break the fragile cups...I always hand crank the table, whichever way makes it go "down". Get the stuck pins out with the table down, watch your fingers! Those cups slam back, if you don't hold 'em, and carefully lay 'em back. Easy does it.

These guys here on this site can help you a lot, and even save your life, if you heed their advice! I'm thankful for this, and I've made friends, here!

Finally, a place guys can get together and talk pinspotters! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Doug

[Rep]

Re: many dist jams

Ok, to answer your questions. I work in a pretty high linage 64 lane center, and if I get 5 pin piles across the house in a day its a lot. Dists can be a royal pain but take some time with them, tweak whatever needs to be and they will run well. Your ball return problem is all over, kickers are just too out of date with the oil applied now a days, especially the older balls. Kickers work pretty well when everything is right but overall they're just a pain. Pins jamming in the table next... Sounds like your machines could use some shuttle work, I'll get a pin jammed in the table maybe 2 or 3 times in the 5 days a week I work, those can definately be avoided. Just hang with us, catch what exactly the machine is doing and we'll get ya all fixed up. There's a TON of knowledge to be had here as Stuck said, I know I've gained quite a bit. Good guys on here too, us pinmonkeys are all friends [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[Tablejam]

Re: many dist jams

In answering your question about the "dizzys" always messing up like this, no, they are not supposed to-most of the time. Since you are new at this you need to have your head mechanic or at least who is familiar with distributors go over with you the clutch adjustment, stop blade, trip casting, etc. I'll bet most of your "DJ's" are caused by any one of those assemblies or maybe even bad pins. I work in a 50 lane center with some very old 82-70ss-some even still have the respot solenoid and latch, and we don't even get that many DJ calls in a week. It also appears you have kicker style ball lifts-("that little wheel that is supposed to roll the ball into the ball exit"). Most of our machines still have those- the rest have mini PBL conversions, we don't have really much trouble at all with either. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[Pin_Head]

Re: many dist jams

Hi Ken,
This great site even has folks from all over the world mate, Myslef , Cobow, Mark Anderson, Androooo, Sports_Central, VBTECH to name a few are all from Australia and other to such as the great Lampie are all from NON U.S countries, so there is a virtual plethera of imformation available on this site..
As far as your machines running so poorly NO not all pinspotters run like like BUT ALL will if they are maintained by previous techs poorly. Over time you will pick up advice from guys here, and no doubt both from experience you pick up from watching your machines and advice here you will learn there are SO many causes for pin jams on the dist.
Other guys i dont know may disagree with me here but this is my opinion especially if you are only starting out, is get your machines set according to the AMF manual, then after time you will see how they run and then will figure out how and when they will need some minor alterations outside of the manual. Set your distributors , pin guide rails , and "O" pans etc to exactly what the book says and just observe how they operate for a while and take it from there.

[Tablejam]

Re: many dist jams

Like I'm sure anyone else will say here, probably the best thing to do is just watch it and hope that you actually catch it malfunctioning- sometimes you can watch one of these damn things for an hour trying to see what is causing the problem and it runs fine, until you walk away. Don't be discouraged, it's not as complicated as it seems. I've been a pinspotter mechanic for about 15 years and you would think someone doing that for so long would have complete knowledge of it but everyday I learn something new. Stay with it and make sure you have a good trainer and before you know it you'll be down to maybe a couple of calls a week, good luck!

[Pin_Head]

Re: many dist jams

Hey TABLEJAM,
no offence to anyone but if poor Ken's center has that many pin jams id say the head tech isnt that experienced on the m/c's OR is Ken taking over as head tech and thrown in at the deep end??
Ken do you have a head tech or are you the taking over at the helm? Is there anyone at your center who is experienced on 70's?

[Tablejam]

Re: many dist jams

None taken. If he does not have anyone to train him then I definitely agree with pinhead, set your machines by the book- you can never go wrong there.

[Pin_Head]

Re: many dist jams

Ken,
Just remember mate, on here we are mostly all friends even though very FEW have ever met, and while you are starting out NEVER be afraid or feel stupid asking ANYTHING if you are unsure about anything just ask mate , guaranteed there will be SOMEONE on here who can help with your problems no matter how big or small it may be!!!

[ModelTech]

Re: many dist jams

[img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] Great guys, here from all over the world!

The distributor is one of my weak points. The 8230 simply sits on a track and follows it cup to cup.

The 8270 and its clones have a different setup altogether. I've had trouble with the thing, since I first saw an 8270. I think it's time I vigorously attempted to learn the fine points of dissy adjustment. The way I learned the 8230 distributor, my chief (she HATES to be called HEAD mechanic, LOL) made me disassemble and reassemble it many times. Same with the respot cell.

Our MC-2's are brand spankin' new. We just had the support weldment re-welded. It's not the "L"-shaped support you guys are familiar with. It's totally different. The original one broke. When you install brand new 'spotters, things can get bent or twisted slightly, even just enough to throw the whole thing off.

Now, after replacing the dissy, the damn thing's quirky. Half an hour of perfect pocket to pocket...then, "Bang, bang, bang", you can hear it all the way to the shop. I've learned to know that sound, too well!

Adjust, re-adjust...seems to work fine, then it starts all over again [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]

Of all the machine parts, the dist on an 8270 is the one I'm least proficient in...somehow, I've always thought it was something "others" could handle.

I don't think that way any more. Need to learn it, in and out. You guys can help me. I'm going to fix that thing once and for all! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Doug

[ken.b]

Re: many dist jams

hi guy's, thank's for all the reply's!
first let me say that i'm not going to be a head tech for a long time,the head tech here has been here for around 9-10 years.
I worked two days with him to learn how to clear jams,and he told me to read the manual.
when I ask him why dists jam up so much he looks like he gets mad and says it happens??
sometimes there are so many calls I don't have time to watch anything.
things I have seen are the flippers not coming back up fast enough when at the 8-9 slots or just coming back up half way? also some dists bounce around going from 3 to the 2 or 7 to the 8 and then the pins falls in the bin head first.
the other thing I have seen is the #1 pin go right into the cup if the table is up and if table is not up it fly's out on the alley or gets jammed in the table if it's on it's way back up.
some of the clutches chatter and make all kinds of noise.
makes me wonder what I got myself into! so far I think I lost about 15 pounds or more in the last few month's. thank's for your input.

[ModelTech]

Re: many dist jams

Hey Ken, Doug here, again.

It sounds as if PM has been lacking there. I tell ya, it's easy to get lazy in this business. Stuff needs CONSTANT attention, not just when it breaks, or "makes noise".

Back when our Regional Tech was head mech at our place, he ran it like a Drill Sergeant. If he came out back and caught you sleeping, or reading anything but the manual, your @$$ was gr@$$!

"Clean, clean, check the machine..."

We still maintain that policy. Can't find me? Look in one of the pits. I'll be there, cleaning or checkin' stuff. Full house? I'm walking the catwalks like a prison guard.

I'm still learnin'. Sometimes we're like doctors, checkin' symptoms and syndromes...LOL [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Doug

[Rep]

Re: many dist jams

Ken, when the #1 pin slides right into the cup like that, more than likely your shuttle just needs to come back some. Also check your pin holders for wear. One thing I'll say, people here said to go with book adj. and I agree especially when your newer to the machines. One thing to watch though, our machines are about 40 years old book adj are a great starting point but watch, as machines age book adj's need tweaking, they're not right on the money as when the machines were new. So if you do adj something to what the book says, dont flip if it doesn't work. With older machines it might just need a little tweak [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[Mike Stalker]

Re: many dist jams

Ken B, sounds to me like your head mech doesn't know anything. Sorry to be blunt but being there one month and having that many dist jams in a 32 laner is uncalled for to say the least. How on earth did that guy last 9 years.

Start shoping for a real mechanic, one with ambition and some pride!

[8270king]

Re: many dist jams

Ken.....turn in your 2 week notice.....there are plenty of places to work where competent people are head techs.

JK