JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

[ken.b]

i've been watching the machines a bunch in the last few days-82/70, and another thing that is causing table jams is the respot cell fingers don't get out of the way fast enough on a x during a spotting cycle [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] hey I found the funny faces! oh no [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
I looked in the manual and it says they should have a 1/4 to a 1/2" of free play,and I checked and adjusted a few that were a little loose and ran machine thru 6 x cycles and on the 6th one the pin got caught on the front part of the finger on the 2 pin? and there is not to much free play on that one [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]
it seems like the fingers are not moving fast enough to get out of the way. any ideas. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

[Rep]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

Sounds like the skinny rod (forget the # in the book). facing the machine from the lane it's on the left. If that's too short even if your linkages are properly adjusted it wont allow them to open all the way.

[ken.b]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

rep,
I did what you said with the thin rod and it helped on two machines,but on the 3rd machine the cam follower was in tight to the cam already and when I adjusted it for what the manual calls for it made it worst [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] on every x about 3-4 fingers would not get out of the way fast enough.
I ended up adjusting it so it doesn't have any free play at all and it seemed better.
do you have any other ideas.
thanks.

[8270king]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

Ken....

Put the table in spotting position

Then adjust the rod per specs unless you want the rod in a pretzel shape [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Then adjust all cells by pulling all carb linkages

Do the 7 1st

Then do all the others allowing for free play...if you do not give the free play then they will not open correctly

Take a punch and take off all the finger inserts on the end of the r/c fingers....they hang up too often

Adjust the batman cam to where when the cells close they do not close completely

Good luck

Jerry

[WI Adam]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

Good (cheap) investment would be some respot cell "buttons" by vantage... dont know part number, but they replace the U shaped plastic piece that came on the machines... They dont hang up, and really seem to work for our center. Anybody else use them? I cant stand the noise the cells make with no ends on them [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

[Rep]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

Again, follow the kings lead. Adj skinny rod 1st, pop all linkage rods off, adj 7 cell next then do the others. Hang in there bud you'll be fine [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[TheGMan143]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

Originally posted by WI Adam:
Good (cheap) investment would be some respot cell "buttons" by vantage... dont know part number, but they replace the U shaped plastic piece that came on the machines... They dont hang up, and really seem to work for our center. Anybody else use them? I cant stand the noise the cells make with no ends on them [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea... we use them. I don't like the metal-on-metal squeak either. That, and they're a heck of a lot easier to change/replace than the old 'roll-pin' style ones.

[ken.b]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

well it's been a fun week or so! the head tech is still out and the manager ended up getting another head tech to help out a few hours here and there. we had three table yokes break and a number of respot cells break! the problem with the fingers not getting out of the way fast enough is what's causing the table jams on a few certain machines. I removed the incerts on the end of the fingers on two machines and cleaned the frame track and even put some silicone on the track and the fingers move nice and free,but they still won't get out of the way fast enough on a x. the other head tech looked at them and said he didn't see anything wrong [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] anybody think of another reason why there not getting out of the way fast enough.
at least I learned how to change broken table yokes [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] thanks for the help.

[TheGMan143]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

If the front fingers are hanging forward on the whole table, you'll need to go through the respot adjustments (see King's post above)... if it's one or two particular fingers in the table that seem to be hanging forward, the cells themselves may have a worn bushing, a cracked center casting, a bent arm or pin, or the top plate may be tightened down too far, causing a bind.

A worn spot/respot cam, a bad respot cam follower on the front end, or a loose rod-end can also cause erratic operation.

[ken.b]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

g,man
I guess I need to explain things better,it only happens on a x. the cells have been adjusted a couple of times.
the head tech that is out, had 4 machines that did not go into a x for ever I was told,and this is one of the machines [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] he had the 8 cell grounded so there was no x cycle.
when I fixed it so it has a x cycle that is when the table jams started.
they just open too slow on a x.
and it does not go into a false x like we get on a bunch of others with the wires falling off.

[TheGMan143]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

Keep in mind, a single cell on the table that's sticking can cause the whole thing to bind... it's one of the downfalls of the 82-70 respot assembly.

As for your problem... a sticking cell or bent pin at a pivot can still be causing your problem... it's just not as noticeable on respot, since the fingers are opening and closing slowly, and they're open when the machine spots... if they aren't open all the way, they will pull out of the way far enough on spotting because there is only a very short distance to travel.

You may also have an opposite problem... you can get problems with fingers hitting pins on a spotting cycle after a strike if the fingers are snapping open violently... the front finger can bounce off the stop and move forward, or it can fly up against the cell pivot and hang there long enough to tip a pin over.

I would still place a bet on a bind, or even the spot/respot cam or follower. Binds are the most common... take a good, hard look at the table 'boomerang' pivots... a bent pivot pin there can screw things up, yet go pretty much unnoticed... they don't always look bent, even if they actually are.

[ken.b]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

well I watched real close during a x cycle and nothing seems to be catching,and the other head tech looked and said everything looks good and the fingers and everything is clearing and nothing is catching [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] he said it's weird
like the respot cells are tired [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]
they open and close good on a normal respot.
the fingers might get out of the way fast enough on 10-15 x's then either it causes a pin to fall over or it causes a table jam.
anybody have anymore ideas why they open so slow on a x cycle [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] nothing seems to be binding or catching. thanks
oh one more thing I asked the other head tech helping us out is what about the respot cam and he said it has nothing to do with the respot cells opening on a x [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] G,man what are you talking about with the respot cam!

[Alastair]

Re: JAMMED PINS IN TABLE

Had similar problem the other day with one of my machines. Had a slow opening of finger cells. Discovered that the main cause of this was that the spot/respot assembly unit had a bent rod. It was the rod that the spot and respot arms are attached to on the solonoid housing. (single solonoid machine). This was causing bad movement of the respot rod due to the cam and follower not always running smoothly.
Also when setting up fingers as 82/70 King detailed, when all rods are off all fingers, make sure that the wire way can move extremely freely. A bent rod in the wire way can also cause problems with the respot action.
Im sure if you follow thegman's advice then your problems will be solved! Respot cell problems can be most annoying.