Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

[Padawan]

This one's gotta be so simple, and I can't figure it out- maybe I just need a fresh start on it. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]
I've got a combo motor that started overheating constantly. Swapped out the head with a known-good unit. Same problem. Swapped out the chassis with a known-good unit, again to no avail. Talked with someone who suggested the centrifugal...checked it, it acted like it might be sticking a bit, so replaced the mechanism/switch with one from a used motor in the shop. After hooking everything back up and reinstalling, the motor won't run at all. It'll make a very low buzzing/humming noise, but won't turn. In complete frustration, backtracked and swapped heads and chassis again, no effect of course, and I'm stuck at this point. Other possible causes for overheating, or any theories on why it's now not even engaging? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

PS: A side note some of you may find amusing. While on duty earlier tonight, I briefly walked up front to get a Coke, and on my way to the counter I was snagged by an open bowler who spotted the shirt and says "Hey buddy, you work here?" "Yes sir...what can I help you with?" He then asks me "Is it possible for your machines back there to eat a ball? I was throwing one, a red 14 pounder with big holes, but about 15 minutes ago after I threw it, it never came back." I asked if the other balls had come back...since I hadn't gotten a ball return call or anything. "Yeah man, it's just this one ball won't come back!" I'm already praying it hasn't jumped the track or something. Called back to the other mechanic to check it out, see if there was something mysteriously floating around in the back. Glanced down at the ball return, a sudden flash of comprehension dawned on me...and I grabbed a purplish-blueish house ball and asked "Not this one, is it?" He reminded me that his was RED. "But the finger holes feel the same, and it's about the same weight, feels like..." he pondered. At which point I grinned, and led him out with ball in hand to the concourse- the one part of the house NOT lit with blacklights...which, coincidentally, had been running for about 15 minutes. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
Given the irritation I had with myself concerning that sweep motor, it DID feel nice to get ONE problem fixed easily tonight...and gave the customer a good laugh, to boot. Win-win situation.

[ewen]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

Padawan, This is what I would do :
1) Replace the entire motor with a known working motor from another machine. ( The gearbox could have a bad bearing ,broken teeth on gears, or some other problem that is causing the motor to over heat. I assume you have checked the oil level).
2) Change the motor capacitors (located in the wireway) .If it is the sweep motor, the capacitors are CSM 1, CSM2. Table motor capacitors are CTM 1, CTM 2 .
3)Inspect the pins on the C1 plug. Look for burned pins, or a pin that is pushed back .
4)Check the wires from the C1 plug ,to the terminal strip under the chassis, to the motor plug. If you do not have a schematic, post again and let me know which motor you have problems with, and I can post the C1 pin out along with the TS pin out. You may have a burned pin or broken wire in the motor plug.
Good luck, post again if you still have problems.

Mark

[8270king]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

Ewen is on it.

I like to use the cheater cord.....plug sweep cable into it and it plugs into table.....or vise versa.....they are priceless to see if it is in the circuit or motor/gearbox.

Jerry

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

Start Capacitor

measure microfareds if possible or swap one at a time with spare.

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

Yes the jumper cord Jerry is talking about is great for isolating a problem . You can isolate the problem to either,
1 the motor itself
2 the chassis and caps

If you do not want to make one you can buy one from Stahl's. It is a must tool for your tool box.

[felix]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

Rotating switch is down to far? Iffen so, good luck sliding it up with out monkeying it up.

[Rep]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

Again I must give the king his props [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] Those cheater cables are the best things ever, really help you narrow a problem quickly and easily. My guesses have already been mentioned, I would check the capacitors and the gearbox

[Ar Rar]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

You might want to check your motor cord/plug connections also. A loose wire may be the culprit.

[John_Galt]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

Originally posted by Padawan:
so replaced the mechanism/switch with one from a used motor

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you replace both switches?

Does the motor run in reverse? If so, it's SWS.

Can you turn the rotor by hand?

[Coors]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

take it you have westinghouse motors.

pop open the wireway, take table motor plug and plug it in the sweep, pull out the table cam. if sweep runs, prob is in sweep wiring/plug/capacitors. if it still doesnt run, its the centrifical mech/switch.

those westinghouse switches are touchy, if it wont start, switch is too low. look through top of motor stator when on the machine, make sure the two contacts lift up to touch the two terminals, if not, you can bend the little fingers or terminals to get more play, or tap cent mechinism up the shaft a little.

once you get the motor starting again, look through top of stator, make sure you see the switches drop away from terminals when motor is running, to prevent over heating.

if you dont wanna have to worry about the switches, order one of rrev's deals from AMF, (dont know the number off hand)

[Padawan]

Re: Overheating combo motor- and a funny story

Hey guys, greatly appreciate all the help. Got the bad boy running tonight.
When I initially installed the new centrifugal, I wasn't paying much attention to how far down the shaft I tapped it down. In fact I DID remark to another mechanic that "It looks a little farther down than before, but that shouldn't make any difference...right?"
Riiiiiight.
Started from scratch, compared it as I installed it with the working combo motor (table) to get the heights the same, and voila, a correctly working pinsetter. Final test I guess comes tomorrow after it runs through a few lines of senior tournaments- if she doesn't overheat, we've got it licked.
Thanks again- the advice is greatly appreciated.