Fast table and sweep gearboxes

[Rep]

Just out of curiosity (as well as boredom) :p How many of you guys have fast gearboxes for your tables and sweeps? We're a split house and all but 8 or so lanes on one side are (or at least were) fast, the other side had all slow ones. I only know of like 1 other house that I've ever been to that had fast ones aside from where I work. I'm guessing AMF didn't put them on the machines too long before going back to the slow ones. Can anyone shed some light on this to me? I await responses from the AMF bowltech experts [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[Lampie]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

Originally posted by Rep:
Just out of curiosity (as well as boredom) :p How many of you guys have fast gearboxes for your tables and sweeps? We're a split house and all but 8 or so lanes on one side are (or at least were) fast, the other side had all slow ones. I only know of like 1 other house that I've ever been to that had fast ones aside from where I work. I'm guessing AMF didn't put them on the machines too long before going back to the slow ones. Can anyone shed some light on this to me? I await responses from the AMF bowltech experts [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are the fast ones 50 Hz ?????
Are the slow ones 60 Hz ?????

Martin

[Rep]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

Lampie, sorry. Shouldve clarified, I just meant as far as output speed. There's a 12.5:1 (i.e. 12.5 revolutions of the motor shaft to 1 revolution of the shaft for the table or sweep) and a 14:1 I believe (or so AMF says, actually it takes 10x those numbers to get 1 full turn of the shaft and also I'm not 100% sure of the numbers I bleieve it's 12.5:1 and 14:1 :p ) Just curious as to how popular or rare these faster gearboxes are, I'm thinking more along the rare lines as I've only ever seen one other house (aside from where I work) that actually has them

[GPS]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

Hey Rep and Lampie,
I worked on "fast" motors back in 69-70. They had a final output of 14.5 rpm. They were only manufactured for 1-1/2 years. Sweeps banged at 66 and table dumped pins on spotting. Besides whats the point, you are still waiting on your ball to come back. Most guys changed the worm wheel and worm gear to get them back to a 12.1 rpm.

Mike

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

Mike your really showing your age here.

12:1 is fine.

[Lampie]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

We have a 50 Hz net over here in Bedrock and we use 50 Hz gearboxes, they work on normal speed.
If I use a 60 Hz gearbox on our 50 Hz net the motor outcome shaft will turn slower than the normal speed(anker will have the same speed).
IMHO if you use a 50 Hz Gearbox on a 60 Hz net it wil go faster than normal speed in about the same ratio as mentioned above(I have never had the possibility to try this last thing).
Coincidence???
New question : What is the differece between a 50 Hz motor and a "fast motor" that you guys name it????

Martin

[TheGMan143]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

As for the gearboxes... we have 50hz gearboxes on 60 hz motors at our place (we also have some 50hz motors running on 60hz)... they run considerably faster than the 60/60 combo motors.

We found out the hard way that you can't mix &amp; match... if you put a fast one on the sweep and a slow (normal) one on the table, the sweep overruns the table and interlocks (and has the potential for bashing the pins out of the respot cells). Fast on the table and slow on the sweep works good, though.

[Lampie]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

So I'm right???

Martin

I prefer the slow turning 60 Hz on my BE's by the way(at our 50 Hz net).
And G-man you are right; mixing the combi's will not work.

[solardanl]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

I've got 1 machine where the table moves faster. Always just ended up agreeing with other ppl that i musta been hallucinating. So the sweep gearbox is also fast?

[Coors]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

1965 6700 Elco 99,191
1965 6700 Elco 99,236 First 14.5 rpm motors
1968 6700 Elco 101,696 1st single solenoid Machine
1968 6700 Elco 103,678 switched back to 12.1 motor

[Rep]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

Sweet Coors, thanks for the numbers. And I had a feeling I screwed the numbers up, 14.5 not 12.5 :p One odd thing though, like GMan said you can't mix and match with them, but for us it's the exact opposite. Fast sweep and slow table works fine (just gotta watch the cams or the sweep will hit the head pin when it's in the fingers) but if we go the other way with the gearboxes, interlock city... Anyway thanks for the info guys [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[GPS]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

Hey Lampie,
Not familiar with a 50 cycle motor. What makes a combo motor "fast" is the gearing in the gearbox.

[KL Kevin]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

GPS:

AC current in most of the rest of the world switches polarity (goes from + to -) 50 times per second (cycles), and their motor windings are made to turn a given speed based on 50 cycle electricity (rotor advances a fixed number of degrees per electric cycle.)

When you put 60 cycle juice to a 50 cycle motor it ends up running at a higher RPM than it would have if fed 50 cycle juice, since it now advanced the rotor 60 times per second instead of 50.

Similarly, one of our 60 cycle motors taken overseas would appear slow to the mech there, because the missing cycles would be "under-driving" it

Hope that made sense:

Kevin

[TheGMan143]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

Originally posted by KL Kevin:
Similarly, one of our 60 cycle motors taken overseas would appear slow to the mech there, because the missing cycles would be "under-driving" it

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not to mention heating it up until it grenades...

[Lampie]

Re: Fast table and sweep gearboxes

Sorry Kevin I will have to say some more(don't bother my bad english please).
All the motors of the AMF machines work on a-sync. ac principle, the moving part in a motor(inside the stator-we call it the anchor) will have the same speed no mather if you have a 60 or 50 Hz motor, the gearbox will make the difference between the actual driving speed of your T, S or BE .
The most of the stators/motors will even have a message on them that they are ok for 50 AND 60 Hz.
You can get problems with running 60 Hz motors on 50 Hz juice(like you called it)though; the centrifigal mechanism on a 60 Hz net wil have a bigger speed, so less weight is needed to activate it, thats why there are different CM's for 50 and 60 Hz.
Another tiny problem is the cooling system; if you use a 60 Hz motor on a 50Hz (juice)net the cooling system(blades) will turn slower too, so the motor will get hotter(never had a problem with it though).

Boringyouyours

Martin