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8230 versus 8270

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  • 8230 versus 8270

    I recall bowling at lanes with AMF pinsetters as I grew up. When I started bowling we had the 8230 machines - you would see the pins fill the rack while the pinsetter checked for pins standing after the first ball. It seemed to be a slow process, or at least slower than the 8270 machines that replaced them.

    With the 8230's, when a strike was thrown you often had to wait for a new set of pins.

    However, I noticed with the 8270s that the rack would check for pins it was empty, yet when it returned (even after a strike) suddenly the pins were there and the cycle time was much quicker than the 8230.

    Is there an explanation of the workings of the 8230s versus the 8270s anywhere on the internet?

  • #2
    Re: 8230 versus 8270

    Yes and no... There are some sites where some of the 'nitty-gritty' details of 'spotter operation is discussed... You found one of the best ones right here at this site.

    On an 82-30, the pins are fed directly into the spotting cups by the distributor as they come off of the elevator wheel, and the cups would just swing forward when a spotting operation was needed.

    On an 82-70, one of the modifications to the machine was the addition of a 'bin' and 'shuttle' assembly that contained the pins as they came off of the distributor, then dropped them into the spotting cups when needed to set a new rack. Distributor design and operation was also changed to operate with the bin.

    Mike has some pictures in the gallery on this site, and I have some posted on mine, located here: <a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page" target="_blank">http://www.globalgman.com/bowl/page</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>

    There are some other references out there on the web (there's a Jap site that has lots of equipment pictures, but the explanations are in japanese... got time to take a 7-year crash course in reading it?) [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

    Don't hesitate to ask around here about equipment... the people on here are happy to answer questions &amp; help ya out (well, most of them anyway... stay away from 82/70 King... he's grouchy... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] )(just kiddin, King)
    <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 8230 versus 8270

      Well said Gman.

      The thing that aids tremendously on the 8270's faster strike cycle over the 8230 is that the 8270 has the ability to hold all 20 pins ready to be spotted. While the 8230 could only hold 10 ready-to-be-spotted pins at a time. Therefore, if someone throws a strike immediately after an 8230 spots the pins, the next bowler will have to wait for the next 10 pins to completely feed into the table before it will spot pins again. An 8270 has no advantage over the 8230 when it comes to consecutive strikes or gutter balls because there are only 10 pins in the bin when the machine needs to spot. Therefore if the next bowler gets a strike, the following bowler will still have to wait for the bin to fill up and the machine to spot before they can bowl. Where the 8270 excels in speed over the 8230 is when there is a strike after a spare. Because with an 8270, the pins knocked down on the first ball are immediately fed into the bin and ready to be spotted. For example, if someone knocks down 9 pins on the first ball, those nine pins are immediately fed into the bin. Then, if the bowler after him gets a strike, the following bowler would only have to wait for 1 pin to feed instead of all 10. Which, chances are, that pin was fed before the bowler that threw the strike was done bowling. With an 8230, those 9 pins would just roll around in the pinwheel and carpet intil the machine fed pins and you would still have to wait for 10 pins to feed.

      Louie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]
      Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 8230 versus 8270

        Great posts, guys!

        One thing I'd like to add, is the 8270 has a reverseable sweep.

        7-10 pick-off, don't-ya-know... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

        Plus the strike cycle doesn't waste time by "feeling" for pins.

        Don't kill the 8230, tho'! There are very few left! And they're dropping like flies. 4 more were removed from our house this week, and that makes a total of 6 that will never run again [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] .

        They just don't make 'em like that any more...friggin' TANKS! LOL [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

        Doug

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 8230 versus 8270

          Originally posted by StucKInThePit:

          One thing I'd like to add, is the 8270 has a reverseable sweep.
          7-10 pick-off, don't-ya-know... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]
          Plus the strike cycle doesn't waste time by "feeling" for pins.
          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will add that this is only with autoscoring... with a 'blueprint' 82/70, the capability to reverse the sweep exists, but it's controlled by a switch, and was used primarily to clear OORs. The machine cycles otherwise are very similar to a '30.

          First ball, bowler rolls the ball which hits the cushion and starts the cycle. The sweep drops to guard, and the table begins it's run. The table 'feels' for pins with the respot cells.

          1. If pins are found, the table runs up, the sweep runs through to clear the dead wood, and then returns to guard. the table runs back down, the cells open, and the standing wood is placed back on to the deck. the table runs up to zero, followed by the sweep. As they zero, the electrical system switches to prepare for a second-ball cycle.

          2. If no pins are found, the table runs up, the sweep runs through to clear dead wood, and then returns to guard. At the top of the table run, the spotting solenoid pulls in, allowing the shuttle to pull forward, depositing pins into the spotting cups. During the run, the spotting solenoid also holds the drive linkage in, which pulls the respot cells open, swings the cups into spotting position, and allows the table to run all the way down to the pindeck. As the bases of the pins contact the deck, the table moves slightly back to move the cups away from the pins, leaving them standing on the pindeck. The table runs back up to 'zero' position, followed by the sweep. The electrical system bypasses the second-ball cycle, and returns to first ball.

          On a second-ball cycle, the bowler rolls the ball, again starting the cycle when it hits the cushion. The sweep drops to guard, a 'roller' time delay hold it there to allow any pin action to finish, after which it runs through to clear wood from the deck, and then returns to guard. During this time, the table does not drop to 'feel' for pins... the shuttle opens, deposits pins into the cups, and the table drops into spotting position, as described in the strike cycle. At the end of this cycle, the electrical system is placed ready to run a first-ball cycle.

          The "odd" cycle of the machine is a Foul cycle. The machine performs a normal second-ball cycle, spotting pins on the deck, but instead of returning the electrical chassis to first ball, it changes to second ball cycle, allowing the bowler to deliver his ball at a full rack of pins, after which a normal second-ball cycle is performed.

          Easy as pie... Confused yet?
          <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 8230 versus 8270

            '30 and '70 machines are both good.
            The only thing I like more on a '30 is the contact between the table and the distibutor.
            Most of the '70 distributor problems are caused by swinging or hesitating to go to the next position, the '30 just runs fine on it's track like a locomotive!
            A seperate motor on a '70 distributor might be a solution???

            Gearloose

            Yeah I know, you don't have problems with it..
            I'm a bad mechanic.
            So it goes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 8230 versus 8270

              Originally posted by Lampie:
              A seperate motor on a '70 distributor might be a solution???
              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The 8270A had a separate motor... take a peek:

              <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 8230 versus 8270

                In come's the old, out goes the new!!

                Martin
                So it goes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 8230 versus 8270

                  Thanks for the info! This helps me understand the machines a lot!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 8230 versus 8270

                    hey gman143, do you have any more of those pictures with the distributor drive motor? i always wondered why the control box cover on 70 machines had a space for a distributor motor breaker, but i've never actually seen one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 8230 versus 8270

                      Yeah, they never changed the control boxes. The 82-70 A's had all those switches in use. They just never took the spaces away afterward. Took me a long time til I knew what they were. Just another thing bowltech taught me [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                      All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 8230 versus 8270

                        IMHO,

                        The 8230 distributor has FAR less problems. I'm no expert on either one, but that '70 dissy...

                        Man! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

                        It's enough to make a guy quit this business... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]

                        Doug

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 8230 versus 8270

                          I gotta disagree Stuck. I don't have that many dist problems and I'm in a big high linage house. For the most part they work pretty well, sometimes they just take a little babying. Only time they get real bad is when theyre in dire need of work or on a real humid day. And a clean rag to the pan, kidney and pinwheel fixes that. They're not perfect but they work well if ya dont mind doing some babying from time to time. Just my $0.02 [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                          All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 8230 versus 8270

                            Rep...You ever seen or worked on an 8230 Distributor?? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

                            [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] :p

                            Louie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]
                            Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 8230 versus 8270

                              Louie, unfortunately no. Only in pics, I've seen the rail it's on and everything. As far as that goes I would easily say the 30 must pile up a bunch less. I was just commenting as to Stucks comment, the 70's dist is nowhere near as bad as to make me quit. It's not perfect but it's fine if ya baby it when need be. Thats all [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                              All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                              Comment

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