Strike Cycle Nightmare

[maxandpaddy]

HELP!!!
I have 4 machines which have had a fault for years now and no one can solve it.

What causes the strike cycle to fail?

When a strike is bowled, the scorer is correct but the machine cycles as though pins were still on deck and goes to respot.

I have found two pins on the mask plug to mp chassis which, when removed, makes the strike cycle work but if a miss is bowled, it scores this and sweeps off, leaving m/c on second cycle.

Tried everything we can think of. Sugestions?????

[8270king]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

1. It is electrical through the table circuit.

2. Unplug your table cable and jump the GPS circuit in the wire way and your problems will be gone.....or check to see if any R/C screws are loose and grounding when the table feels for pins.

3. Or check your table cable to table ground wire that always breaks or comes loose.

JK

[TheGMan143]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

King's got it... The usual cause of no strike run is a bridged wire in the table, table cable, or front wireway.

Usually the easy way to diagnose the problem is with the masking unit... on a strike, the machine will register a pin (or pins) still standing for second ball... but since most of us no longer have lighted pindicator masks:

Pull the cover off the wireway that is farthest from the chassis. Near the capacitors and balancing resistors will be a pack of connectors and wires leading out into the table cable. Make sure no screws, metal filings, etc... have fallen on to it and bridged the connectors.

Remove all the wires leading out to the table. If you don't have automatic scoring, you may want to mark where they came from if you're not familiar with the wiring scheme... since they will have to be put back for the machine to run correctly.

Make a jumper with 2 female wireclips and place it across the 2 yellow wire connectors at the lower side of the board (they may be marked GP) to short them... these are the gripper protection switch wires, and the table won't run in 1st ball if the circuit is open.

Sweep the deck clear, place the machine in 1st ball, and cycle it... strike cycle should run. If it doesn't, take a look at the wires from the connector board back to the chassis in the front wireway... make sure none of them have scrapes or gouges that can short to the frame of the machine.

If that does clear your problem and strike does run, inspect and repair (better yet, REPLACE) the table cable. Then run or crank the table to spotting position, shut the machine off, and take a close look at the table cable AMP connector and the wiring. Most problems with table wiring are where wire meets metal on a bend or corner. Look at the wireways and where the wires connect to the respot cells. Fix or replace any wires with frayed insulation or damage. Take a meter with a continuity/resistance setting on it, and check each cell... ground one probe of the meter to the table, and touch each cell connector tab with the other. You should have an open circuit on each one... Any that read as a closed circuit of any kind means that the wire or the cell is faulty... Remove the wire and touch the tab again... if the circuit shows open, it's the wire... if it's closed, then the cell is faulty.

Respot cells should have an near infinite resistance at all times, except when closed with a pin in the gripper, they should read close to zero resistance.

Last, pick up a can of contact cleaner or electronics wash, and spray each cell gap (where the contact and the cell frame meet) to clean out any gunk that may have built up... that stuff can also cause false reads.

Good luck... this kind of problem is a lot of fun to track down sometimes...

[Alastair]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

If machine picks up single pin and then procedes to do a strike cycle this can cause horrible consequences. As machine places 10 pins down when the pin is hanging in mid air. Have come up with quick fix when busy. ( due to broken or doggy f/c wire)

This is a quick fix if all lanes are on and are booked out for ages! Take a connector which can be pluged into the finger cell nearest, but has two connecting outputs to it. (As found in the front wire ways, for example). Run a wire from the finger cell which is hanging the pin to the nearest finger cell, which you have attached the two output connector two. So this cell has its own spade attached to it and also the adjasent finger cell spade which is hanging the pin to it.

Thus your machine will run a strike cycle and will also not drop ten pins ontop of the pin which is still in mid air!! This a quick fix! and the broken wire can be replaced at a convienient time to you.

Just an idea i came up with today!?!

[TheGMan143]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

That's a good temporary fix... our former mechanic showed me that one, and it does get you out of a problem in a pinch. The only thing it can't fix is a broken tab on the cell... in that case, you should really replace the cell or every time that pin is left standing by itself, you're going to have a train wreck.

For machines without masking units, or ones where the masks aren't used anymore, you can run one wire through the whole table, and tie all 10 cells to it. Connect it to the #1 or #5 pin lead with a wire run through 1/4" or 3/8" plastic tubing up to the front wireway (keeps the wire protected better than the old loom used to), and remove that wire or bulb from the mask to keep it from lighting up. Cuts the wiring to the table down to 4 wires... Ground, Pin Signal, and 2 GP wires. You can actually reduce it to just one by eliminating the 2 GPs (jump them in the wireway) and the grounding wire (which the machine will run without... it was more critical on the older chassis, but the newer SS, MP, and aftermarket single-boards don't need it). Works good for reducing table wiring, but makes it harder to pinpoint a cell or wire grounding out.

[darkhalf]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

I am not sure if I am missing something but didn't he say it was an mp chassis. Dont mp chassis use the scoring for the strike cycle. On an mp chassis it wouldn't matter if a wire was broken or if the table was grounded if the scorer reads a strike the machine is going to go into a fast strike cycle. It sounds to me like the scoring is either sending the signal for the strike to early or to late, or you have a broken circuit from the scoring to the chassis. Where is deadwood he would know the the "Right Way" to do it.

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

Most 82-70's in the mid 1980's had MP's with Mod V masking units w/sparemaker, table wiring on the respot cells and gripper protection switches.

If you ahve MP's, take some time and eliminate the table wiring.

Maxandpaddy, move your MP board to another machine and see if the problem moves with it. I have had MP cards loose the strike cycle in the past.

[THE HAMMER]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

If machine picks up single pin and then procedes to do a strike cycle this can cause horrible consequences. As machine places 10 pins down when the pin is hanging in mid air. Have come up with quick fix when busy. ( due to broken or doggy f/c wire)

This is a quick fix if all lanes are on and are booked out for ages! Take a connector which can be pluged into the finger cell nearest, but has two connecting outputs to it. (As found in the front wire ways, for example). Run a wire from the finger cell which is hanging the pin to the nearest finger cell, which you have attached the two output connector two. So this cell has its own spade attached to it and also the adjasent finger cell spade which is hanging the pin to it.

Thus your machine will run a strike cycle and will also not drop ten pins ontop of the pin which is still in mid air!! This a quick fix! and the broken wire can be replaced at a convienient time to you.

Just an idea i came up with today!?!

--------------------
Alastair

I THINK SOMEONE ELSE TOLD YOU ABOUT THAT MATE!!!!!!!! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] (ME). THIS IS ONE OF THE MANY TECH TIPS FROM THE HAMMER.

JAMES THE HAMMER
"NOTHING HITS LIKE A HAMMER"

[TheGMan143]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

It's true that the scoring tells the machine about a strike... but if you still have table wiring, a grounded cell wire will override the scoring strike cycle and it will run a normal 1st ball cycle. Removing the table wiring is good advice if you have autoscoring. There are varying opinions on it, but I believe that keeping the GP switch is a good idea... not exactly necessary for machine operation, but good as a precaution.

[Rep]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

GMan is absolutely right (as usual) [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] We have expanders and thus shortened cycles, with the existing table wiring still hooked up (Yes, GPS also, I'm with ya 100% there GMan) and if a cell is grounded it will not set pins after a strike. It'll run a shortened strike cycle, the strike light wont come on, and it will set a shadow rack and close the fingers if a cell is grounded. I can't speak for MP's as we dont have them, but what I typed above is what ours do with the MK-70's and expanders.

[the old dirt man]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

king, g,man
are you trying to send maxpaddy on a wild goose chase! :p I would have thought you might have have told him what the problem really is!
I see it's his first post :p but be nice and stop screwing with him. he's only had this problem for years! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] tell him what's really wrong!

[8270king]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

Originally posted by the old dirt man:
king, g,man
are you trying to send maxpaddy on a wild goose chase! :p I would have thought you might have have told him what the problem really is!
I see it's his first post :p but be nice and stop screwing with him. he's only had this problem for years! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] tell him what's really wrong!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">CHEW ME :p

JK

[darkhalf]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

Let me ask you something if the machine will not go into a fast strike cycle with a cell wire grounded to the table. Then how do you take all of the cell wires off and get the table so it doesn't spot on top of the pins?

[TheGMan143]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

Originally posted by 82/70 king:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by the old dirt man:
king, g,man
are you trying to send maxpaddy on a wild goose chase! :p I would have thought you might have have told him what the problem really is!
I see it's his first post :p but be nice and stop screwing with him. he's only had this problem for years! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] tell him what's really wrong!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">CHEW ME :p

JK</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There's our good-ole' King... always attentive to tact and proper conversation... :p

...Well Put! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[TheGMan143]

Re: Strike Cycle Nightmare

Originally posted by darkhalf:
Let me ask you something if the machine will not go into a fast strike cycle with a cell wire grounded to the table. Then how do you take all of the cell wires off and get the table so it doesn't spot on top of the pins?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you have autoscoring, the scoring interface gives the machine the correct signal to either run respot or strike. I'm not sure what it is on others, but on the Omega-Tek MK70EX boards, the circuitry holds either the #1 or #5 pin circuit closed without the scoring (eg. the machine will not run a strike cycle without the scoring running). With the scoring operating, the table wiring can be completely removed (as long as the GP wires are jumpered out in the front wireway), and the machine will run just fine. The scoring operates the strike cycle by switching it's one pin circuit on or off... the machine doesn't care how many pins are on the deck. It just knows that there either IS a pin or pins that need respotting, and it runs a 1st ball cycle; or there ISN'T, and it can run a strike cycle.

Remember.. a properly-working cell is only grounded to the table when a pin is in the gripper... any other time it's an open circuit.

If you are using a standard SS 5-board, an O.T. MK70, or an MP chassis without autoscoring, than you can still get rid of the table cable and most of the wiring, but at least 1 wire has to be used (connected to all the cells) to give the chassis the signal to do a respot and not spot pins on top of standing ones.