upgrading machines help

[McCann]

Hi all,

our center is currently upgrading from 82-30's to 82-90XL's. my question is can someone give me a quick run-down of how the 82-90XL runs? just the fundamentals would be great! p.s. i have seen 82-70's, is there much difference? thanks

McCann

[Louie_IV]

Re: upgrading machines help

Originally posted by McCann:
our center is currently upgrading from 82-30's to 82-90XL's.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] Please Join Me In A Moment of Silence [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]

But, if you must. The 82-90XL runs about just like an 8270. There are differences though. I have never personally seen an 8290, just what I've heard. They only have 1 chassis for 2 machines. And the backend motor is turned 90 degrees from what your used to on the 30 and 70. There are other differences but I don't know them. Good Luck.

Louie

[Kat]

Re: upgrading machines help

Louie is correct in the 1 chassis per pair. Not a big fan of that. If the chassis takes a ****, and you have no spare, then you have a whole pair down instead of just 1 machine.

-Plastic pinwheel covers.
-IR ball detects used to cycle machine (no more cushion switch to fall back on in case ball detect fails/gets munched)

[OneWorldSport]

Re: upgrading machines help

Personally I can only give a good wrap on the new versions. I have 70XL's and I have not come up with one chassis problem in 4 yrs so far. The machine has been simplified greatly. Less wiring under the front wireways, gearboxes are great(except the b/end leak for no reason). You can cycle from the front of the machine. I have not found a fault with the new versions yet! I have had a couple of problems because they are upgraded machines but thats about it. If you have any questions fire away or send an Email

Peter

[Lash]

Re: upgrading machines help

I recommend you lower all your shuttles to start with, and also keep checking the table to pindeck height, at the spotting position, at least every week for the first two months. The new springs need to bed in, I also recommend at the end of the night shift all the tables be lowered to the spotting position and left overnight.

With regards to the chassis, we've never had one break down on us yet, and we've been open for nearly a year. The same can be said for the motors and gearboxes.

Oh yeah before I forget, The pinwheel rollers have a lot of room for play, and you might get pins being fed head first caused by the vibration from pins at the bottom of the pinwheel. I've put extra spacer washers in mine to reduce it.

Be prepared for a lot of calls to start with, and I found carrying a 9/16 ratchet, and a 9/16 ring, spanners, will help sort problems out quickly while the machines are running.

Be prepared for all the adjustments you have made, to go out of adjustment within a few days. Especially the table!!!

[mechanic8230]

Re: upgrading machines help

I suggest spending as much time as you can with the head installation man. Ask as many questions as you can and get him to point things out for you. Most of these guys have been turning wrenches for a long time and know the machine inside and out. A big difference for you will be the distributer. No more broken tracks. It will follow a dedicated path on a large plastic cam. Learn all about the clutch and the guide roller adjustments.
I have 70s upgraded to XL and the chassis is great (no stops in almost 2 years) and the motors are solid. I have two minor leaks on BE motors.
You will catch on quickly I guarantee.

[kevin]

Re: upgrading machines help

There is not alot of difference between a 8270 and a 8290XL Just as they said one chassis with very little problems. Motors are dependable, Less wiring and so on as they said.

Your biggest problems will be adjustments if its anything like I had when they were first installed. I know the adjustments well, but there was alot of adjusting all at one time.

I did'nt have alot of problems with the tables.But If the machines are brand new you may have alot of adjusting to do. I don't know because mine were used for a short time.

sweeps going behind the pin deck was one of the main ones but I got most of them corrected in a afternoon. The distributers needed adjustments they were so far out of wack! This takes alot of time.

I must say at first, it is a very rough time when the machines are first installed.

I think the 30's are alot different than the 70's and 90's but I have only seen picks of them and heard people talk about them.

You (may) need someone to help you that knows 8270's or 8290 XL's until you get use to the adjustments your self.

I recommend having at least two strong pin chassers per 20 lanes to run calls while you make adjustments and such, more would be better at first.
The rest of it you hopefully will not have many problems with.

I don't mean to scare you but only prepare you.
You may have very little problems.

Good luck! and stay cool [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]

[ModelTech]

Re: upgrading machines help

Kevin,

I owe ya thanks for that post. You mentioned:

"I recommend having at least two strong pin chasers, per 20 lanes, to run calls while you make adjustments and such. More would be better at first..."

You got that one right! Brand new machines...where should I begin...

I guess we are not the only house with problems. We have BRAND spanking new 8270 clones. We've had nothing but trouble since we installed six of 'em in our 24 lane house. We DID have just two, and had NOTHING but problems with the distributors, and pin/table jams, bending the respot cell links all out of whack, table spotting pins off-spot, blackouts for no reason (different voltages converting to our American electric stuff, is what we believe), and just plain TROUBLE!

Then our illustrious, innovative owner decides to install FOUR MORE! Now we have two people about ready to quit. We have 18 of our old 8230's left. They run without a hitch, maybe one or two calls a NIGHT! Full house! Glow bowlers! If we didn't have hit sweeps, I doubt we'd many calls at all, save for a light ball sensor belt break, or some such.

The six 8270-type (I ain't naming the Brand name, nor the name of our center. I'm sick of them bitching at me for posting here. I have ISSUES, dammit), are pieces of **** in my opinion. I've never in all my years of working on various Brunswick and AMF machines, ever had as much trouble keeping a house of machines going. It's only SIX, can you imagine if the WHOLE center was those things...(HORRORS)! Now I understand the owner bought TWO more! I guess someone lured him at the Expo. We'll need two pinchasers just to keep eight machines running when (not if, WHEN) they decide to install 'em. I love the 8270. I hate these machines. When I worked on the 8270-C, about 8 years ago, we had 26 lanes. I watched TV most of the time! Rarely a call, maybe a ball return or two from oily lanes. Maybe a hit sweep bar on occasion, but NEVER the problems these new machine cause us, and the flaring tempers, when the bowlers get angry.

Management almost let me go the other day, LOL! An angry bowler caught me as I was coming up front for a soda refill, and wanted to know, "...what's up with your f*cking MACHINES????"

I stated, "They're pieces of ****, that's what's up!"

I guess that didn't go over very well with management. "Keep your opinions to yourself!"

Ha! Right...

A difficult thing to do after a 10 hour shift, sitting on a milk crate, kicking pins into the bin pockets, and indexing the thing by hand, so our bowlers, "won't get angry", every time they fire up one of those things. Some of the counter people understand, and won't turn 'em on unless we have no other lanes available. Sad. Six brand new machines that won't run right, and virtually no support (unless you want to fly those boys back over from China!).

Sorry for the rant. 8290XL's are an AMF product. You will most likely have MUCH better performance, once the quirks have been worked out...

JMHO... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

(not signing my name this time [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] )

[pat]

Re: upgrading machines help

best of luck with the upgrade. Be sure to keep up the maintaince on these machines. We have a local center that upgraded from Brunswick to the 8290xl they worked fine for a year or so now they are breaking down as nuch as the other machines he did not take care of .

I know this is probably a mute point just my 1/2 cents worth. I have seen times where people get something new and think it will take care of itself. They all seem to work well if they are taken care of.

[KL Kevin]

Re: upgrading machines help

Stuck:

Sounds like the only two guys who know how to keep them running each stand on top of one when the men's tour's bowling arena ... not to mention any names of course:

If the company that made them is upset that you complain here, then it would be better for them to spend the time to get yours to run right, as all that $$$$ they are spending promoting bowling is wasted if the machines don't run and everyone knows it.

The beauty of this website is that bullshytt policies, products, and companies get held up to the light of day almost immediately. The company should remember that the stink they smell is the one they generated themselves:

Kevin

[Kirby G]

Re: upgrading machines help

Originally posted by StucKInThePit:
Kevin,

The six 8270-type (I ain't naming the Brand name, nor the name of our center. I'm sick of them bitching at me for posting here. I have ISSUES, dammit), are pieces of **** in my opinion. I've never in all my years of working on various Brunswick and AMF machines, ever had as much trouble keeping a house of machines going.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Does the manufacturer's name have 3 letters starting with a "V"? Man I could tell some stories about the Korean built DACOS knock-offs of the A-2 since I used to install their scoring a long time ago. So I can relate to how bad the Chinese 82-70's are. You couldn't pay me enough to work a center full of that crap. Wanna make him stop buying them: start ordering 6 of everything that gets bent or broken every day. Just explain that you will need each of those parts in the very near future and he should probably go ahead and order 18 more before the new machines arrive.

On a more serious note, I'd be looking for a new job. Cause guess what, proprietors aren't going to admit they made a mistake on that kind of purchase.

I just bowled a tournament in Pensacola two weekends ago and Steve Reynolds at Cordova Lanes has it right. He removed his aging Brunswick A's to install 24 brand new 82-90xl's. I took some video of them for reference and man are they sweet. They had 2 or 3 calls on each shift I bowled and the machines have only been in for six weeks. In the end, you get what you paid for.

[ModelTech]

Re: upgrading machines help

Kirby,

You hit it right on, when you said, "...start ordering 6 of everything that gets bent or broken every day..."

Yep, and you can bet that when we order, they're gonna be AMF parts!

Case in point:

Bent master links for the respot cells. They can be bent with your bare hand. Unbelievably cheap metal...nuts and bolts...strip immediately upon installation, then CAN'T BE REMOVED! Ya have to CUT 'em off. So, we spent $$$ on boxes of AMERCIAN-made nuts and bolts, good locking nuts. Then my chief (she only has so much patience) ordered new respot master links from AMF...man...what a difference. You'd need a vise and a BIG TOOL to bend that sucker!

If only our illustrious owner had to sit on these boat-anchors, he'd change his mind...BIG TIME...another one went down today...hard. Bent up a BUNCH of stuff...won't even set pins, now...LOL! And parts? Well, maybe we could set up candlepins by hand on that lane, and have some REAL fun! Just us...

Ya know...a while back, one of you guys (I can't remember which) said, "...you can keep that Asian junk..."

But oh, no...I HAD to get excited about new stuff...pretty new machines, bright &amp; shiny...like a new car...

And to think I'm building a model of the thing...

I can always just rename it...put an AMF logo on the sweep bar...

:p

(U-KNOW-HOO)

[ModelTech]

Re: upgrading machines help

UPDATE:

And, true to my reply above, I've removed all reference to the former "brand" name of my scale model. It will be an AMF generic 8270.

I cannot name it after a machine I hate.

It's too bad. It looked like it might be a great way for the industry to save money, but I'm all for the idea, "you get what you pay for", and AMF has been the tried and true for so many years, hell, look at the 8230! Eight-hour shift today, and the calls went as follows:

18 x 8230's: 4...(2 ball returns, toggle pin broke, belt came off BE Motor) in 8 hours!

6 x 8270's (clones): 20+...(too many to name, mostly pin jams...more bent stuff...)

24-lane house kept me jumping today...for just 6 machines....

I wonder if a brand new 8290-XL or 8800 Gold would EVER give one that much trouble...?

I can't wait 'til the next person posts a rant or two about these new "boat anchors" that come from "overseas"...and the non-existant "support", unreturned calls, weeks of waiting for parts, couldn't even get a MANUAL for the thing for SIX months after they bought them!

Anybody else install these new machines? I'd love to hear what you have to say about them...there are three brand names, that I know of:

Yangzhi (sp?)
Xima
Via

I won't tell you which one we have...but I'd be curious as to the opinion of those who HAVE installed these machines...

(Name once again withheld)

[DetroitSignal]

Re: upgrading machines help

Doug-

I have been following your reports and I must say, I feel very badly for you and your head mechanic. You guys must be going crazy over there. The worst feeling of all is to have NOBODY listening to your grievances!! In my humble opinion, what did they really think they would get for $7500??! I have been passing all your accounts of hardware failure and other problems along to my head mechanic, so hopefully we'll never get rid of our 8230s, OR at least wait until the 8290 comes down in price.

My condolences, and best wishes.

[Rep]

Re: upgrading machines help

I've followed Stuck's sorrows with these new machines too, and even helped him (I think hehe) with some dist. problems. I'm real sorry to hear how bad they are. They may look like AMF's but I guess they're not by a long shot. And I must pat Stuck on the back and his coworkers for putting up with all this and trying as hard as they can to fix it. It takes a LOT of heart to not just up and leave with big stuff like that