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  • Pindicators work only if...

    This I have never encountered 'til now!
    I am doing some work on six lanes at a University campus with 82-70's. This particular lane has a problem displaying the #8 or the #5 pin light(s) if other pins are left standing. If the #5 or the #8 are alone, their respective light comes on properly. All other individual lights also come on unless the #8 and/or the #5 pin is standing with them. Strike cycle works fine. In other words, I can remove the 5 and 8 from a full rack, cycle the machine and all the other lights come on. Add the 5 OR the 8, return to 1st ball and cycle. No lights at all (except 1st or 2nd ball light) will come on! Hmmm! Obviously the cables and wires are good, otherwise there would not be any pindication of certain pins. They don't have a spare operating chassis and "No", I haven't swapped chassis with another machine yet. The machine operates OK, and before I swap, I thought I woud get some ideas from the experts. YOU!! ANY IDEAS??? (There is NO Automatic Scoring here)
    "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
    Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

  • #2
    Re: Pindicators work only if...

    KINGPIN
    CHECK TO SEE IF ANY ONE TRYED TO CHANGE THE TABLE CABLE. THEN CHECK TO SEE IF ITS WIRED UP RIGHT. OR FOR ANY SHORTS. BUT FIRST TRY THE CHASSIS
    RICH

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    • #3
      Re: Pindicators work only if...

      My guess is they have some chair terminals on the r/cell wires either on the table or in the wireway.

      Change the chassis, Omega Tek board, and or XOP or 5 boards and post again.

      JK

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      • #4
        Re: Pindicators work only if...

        What type of machine/chassis are you using?
        That can make a difference, also what type of masking unit are you using?

        Jon [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]
        I've had enough of hope & chains.

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        • #5
          Re: Pindicators work only if...

          Assuming your chassis board(s) are OK,

          A faulty or miswired table cable most likely wouldn't cause a problem like that... The table wiring is simply a bunch of switches going to ground. Shorting one or more wires together would do nothing more than cause more than the correct amount of lamps to light... Since there is no true multiple 'circuit' on the table's cell switches (everything goes to ground), there's no real way for a short to cause lights to go out 'conditionally' like that (one or two come on, causing others to go out)... only to make them turn on. The only exception I can think of would be feeding voltage to one of the cell wires... that could cause weird problems... but I would bet that something in the chassis would blow out first. Shorting table cable cell wires is obviously OK, since that is a common way to temporarily fix a broken wire in the table cable: short the nonworking cell to a functional one so it can read through it.

          A miswired pindicator (which has multiple current-carrying circuits on it) could do that, though, as could a short at the PM plug or chassis tracers. Check the chassis for loose metal items in it first... a dropped snip of wire or metal in the chassis or under the motherboard (in the area of the board tracers and PM plug) can cause shorts... If there's nothing along those lines, check the PM circuit and the pindicator wiring.

          The pindicator loops the ground through all the lights (I believe strike, 1ball, & 2ball have a separate ground wire). Theoretically, connecting the wiring incorrectly could cause the pindicator to act like that... the 5 or the 8 (maybe both) have the could hot and neutral wires reversed, causing the rest of the 'loop' to act up when they are powered. something to the effect of when the 5/8 light is lit (and no others are), there is power being fed to ground through the rest of the circuit. Light the 5/8 in combination with other pins, and there is now being power fed to the wrong side (or possibly both sides) of the wiring, causing a short which blacks out the lights...

          In the old 5-boards, this would have no serious effects, as there was a thermal overload on the 5-board which would turn off the pindication if there was too much of a load put on it, or if a short occurred. On the newer single boards, the SCR's on the board should disconnect if there is a short, but they may also burn out from repeated 'current stressing'.

          As a suggestion for tracing this out, chase each wire on a working pindicator (preferably the one next to the malfinctioning one, for convenience) through the lamps to where it terminates. Compare it to your malfunctioning pindicator... I'm willing to bet you'll find something reversed or connected incorrectly.

          Just a thought... it's been quite a while since I had to dig out pindication problems.
          <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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          • #6
            Re: Pindicators work only if...

            Originally posted by TheGMan143:

            The pindicator loops the ground through all the lights (I believe strike, 1ball, &amp; 2ball have a separate ground wire). Theoretically, connecting the wiring incorrectly could cause the pindicator to act like that... the 5 or the 8 (maybe both) have the could hot and neutral wires reversed, causing the rest of the 'loop' to act up when they are powered. something to the effect of when the 5/8 light is lit (and no others are), there is power being fed to ground through the rest of the circuit. Light the 5/8 in combination with other pins, and there is now being power fed to the wrong side (or possibly both sides) of the wiring, causing a short which blacks out the lights...
            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">These are the old Magic Triangle masking units. Each individual light has been checked by grounding each lamp housing. Each lamp comes on when grounded. I have checked and compared the wiring of the masking unit to the unit on the next lane and both are wired the same. I won't be back at that center until Tuesday, however you guys are giving me plenty to think about. After Tuesday I won't be back on-line until Friday night. I'll let you know then what it was, IF we find it. Thanks again!!! Lonnie
            "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
            Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

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            • #7
              Re: Pindicators work only if...

              In my case it's been a Blown or dying relay on the Masking unit borad off the top of my head, i can;t tell you which one... The rlay wiring on those things is odd, meaning as for which one controls what... Need more info, just email...

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              • #8
                Re: Pindicators work only if...

                Well, I'm back and we found the problem. Two of the transistors on the Omega board were not functioning properly. When I changed the Omega board, the problem went away. I put that board in another chassis to varify and the problem was still there. Problem solved!!! Thanks to all for your suggestions. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                Lonnie
                "Efficiency is, doing better what is already being done!"
                Pinsetter Technical Services 214-505-7663

                Comment

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