Cycle problem.

[LancerLanesMech]

What happens is that before we got scoring and ball triggers, the ball hits the cushion and activates the start switch but the sweep only moves a little bit and then stops, no cycle. This started mid season last year and was intermittent. Towards the end of the season it got worse and now it happens every time on lane 1 and about 8 out of 10 times on lane 7. At first the problem seemed to go away with a different chassis, then it started happening again.
Now we have scoring and the ball triggers work fine but I still want to fix this. Used to be that if i hit the cycle button on the control panel it would work fine. No longer the case, as soon as I let off of the cycle button, the sweep stops. I have to hold it in until guard position to get it to cycle. Just to make sure again, I swapped chassis and the problem stayed on 1. A couple months ago I was told to change SA switch, no luck.
Carl at AMF was trying to help me with this. He had me take off the pink wires in the A&MC at terminals 5&6 and hook them together, no luck. Then we swapped control box master breaker and no luck I'm leaning towards a C2-A problem on the machine side. Any other ideas??

[Lampie]

Re: Cycle problem.

I think the two common wires on the sws switch in the control box are swapped, look in another control box and compare it with the troublemaker.

Martin

[LancerLanesMech]

Re: Cycle problem.

OK, I'm a bit green on all the abbreviations, what's "sws"? I'm thinking you mean the sweep run switch??? If that was it, would this cause it to be a progressive problem that starts out doing it every now & then to every time over the course of a few months?

[Lampie]

Re: Cycle problem.

Originally posted by FARLEY AMF 70/90XL:
OK, I'm a bit green on all the abbreviations, what's "sws"? I'm thinking you mean the sweep run switch??? If that was it, would this cause it to be a progressive problem that starts out doing it every now & then to every time over the course of a few months?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fairly said... No, unless the sweep run switch is not good.
I will take a look at the drawing tomorrow and maybe get a little bit wiser myself.
I think I'm hot though.

Martn

[LancerLanesMech]

Re: Cycle problem.

The sweep run switch is hooked up the same as the lane next to it (2) and no problems like that on that lane. Also, I put in a new sweep switch and it still did it so I put the old one back in. Keep in mind I have 2 machines doing this, aren't I lucky??? A problem that has everyone stumped, I get it on lane 1 and 7 .... sheesh!

[LancerLanesMech]

Re: Cycle problem.

Makes me wonder what actually makes the sweep contactor stay in with only a momentary push of a button. Anyone care to enlighten me???
If it might be a suspect wire/wires or pin or socket in the C1 or C2-A, which ones might i look at first? Would be nice to narrow it down with so many wires.

[8270king]

Re: Cycle problem.

Swap Omega Tek boards....I had this happen before....I believe that was the culprit.

JK

[LancerLanesMech]

Re: Cycle problem.

Swap Omega Tek boards....I had this happen before....I believe that was the culprit.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you read back, I swapped the chassis and the problem stays there, I've had 3 or 4 different ones on it so far. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

[Mike Stalker]

Re: Cycle problem.

Farley, I'd like to help here. One question; did you happen to change your sws (sweep run switch) with one from a sound machine?

[TheGMan143]

Re: Cycle problem.

Originally posted by FARLEY AMF 70/90XL:
Makes me wonder what actually makes the sweep contactor stay in with only a momentary push of a button. Anyone care to enlighten me???
If it might be a suspect wire/wires or pin or socket in the C1 or C2-A, which ones might i look at first? Would be nice to narrow it down with so many wires.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The chassis electronics and the cams determine how long the contactors should stay closed for. When you press the cycle button, you are not directly energizing a relay... you are starting a 'program' or sequence of sorts.

Even when you lift SA or TA1 to run the motors, you aren't directly controlling the contactor. The chassis takes the low-voltage 'control' signal from the camswitch, and uses it to fire an amplifier on the board, which controls the 24VAC output to the contactor.

[Lampie]

Re: Cycle problem.

I have to wipe my white flag at this moment.
If I was near to you I would love to help help you(but I'm a few thousand miles away from you).
There are too many things I don't know;
-you might still have an old manager control desk working(that might give a problem in the instructomat circuit a chance..take of wire 7 in the A&amp;mc box..
-Do you have people cleaning your machines with a lot of water/cleaner
-when did the problems start
Sorry, I can't help you.
Good Luck
Martin

[LancerLanesMech]

Re: Cycle problem.

Hmmmmmmm.... #7 in the A&amp;MC box is instructomat? I remember that lane going crazy once last year when I switched it to inst. We never use it, I don't even remember why I did it or if the chattering was in a cycle or just at rest. Any other things to take into consideration, or just unhook the #7 and tape it up? No cleaners being used, just an occational dusting except for the pinwheels I use Pledge now &amp; then. Maybe we're getting close, I'll let everyone know.

[LancerLanesMech]

Re: Cycle problem.

Mike - No, I used a new one, I noticed no difference.

[Lampie]

Re: Cycle problem.

Originally posted by FARLEY AMF 70/90XL:
Hmmmmmmm.... #7 in the A&amp;MC box is instructomat? I remember that lane going crazy once last year when I switched it to inst. We never use it, I don't even remember why I did it or if the chattering was in a cycle or just at rest. Any other things to take into consideration, or just unhook the #7 and tape it up? No cleaners being used, just an occational dusting except for the pinwheels I use Pledge now &amp; then. Maybe we're getting close, I'll let everyone know.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, unhook the ground wire coming from the manager control desk(or from your computer system)from #7 and tape it of(instruction bowling is impossible then).
Problem can also be between your masking and your MP or PM plug on your chassis, a cheater plug becomes handy in that case to short the masking switch.
There should not be a connection between one of your masking wires(3 wires for 1st and 2nd light and two wires for the mask. sw.) and ground or you wil have an instructomat circuit.
But the problem is intermitting(?) so it stays a pain in the A$$.
Good Luck

Martin

[the old dirt man]

Re: Cycle problem.

FARLEY,
If I read your first post right you said the machines cycle with no problem with the ball triggers [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] what about the cycle button on the ball return up front? does that one work with no problems. I assume the ball trigger wires
are hooked into the A&amp;MC box terminals 1-2 the same place the wires are for the cycle button up front.
I'LL bet the problem is in the be control box!
there is a black jumper wire coming off the cycle switch going to the sweep run switch terminal # 3.
it also has a blue wire with it on the same terminal usually with a chair connector.
if the jumper wire is long enough I would cut the terminals off and replace them,if it's not long enough just replace the wire.
sometimes the terminals were crimped to tight and the wire is broken inside the terminal and you can't see it and it will cause a intermittent problem.
if that doesn't fix it let me know and I will look at my wiring diagrams. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]