Table won't pick up pins....

[jc]

Just read thru solardanl's post, but this prob is a little different. There are actually 2 problems with same lane.

First problem.....frequently, as opposed to always, after 1st ball, table goes down to pick up pins but fingers don't close. Machine registers a strike and I have to respot pins. When this started happening, I replaced the plug at the chassis and things worked fairly well for awhile, but it is now doing it again. Ideas? I will be checking pins and sockets when I get to work.

Second problem.....5 pin. Table picks up pin, but halfway thru cycle machine reads a strike then sets a full rack on top of 5 pin. I currently have a jumper wire to another cell and the problem is gone. (Actually have 2 lanes doing this). I have replaced the respot cell twice, and run new wire from cell to table harness. What have I missed?

Easy with the technical terms in your responses since I have no idea what most of it means...lol...I turn wrenches much better than I deal with wiring.

Thx in advance guys.

jc

[Louie_IV]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

Originally posted by jc:
First problem.....frequently, as opposed to always, after 1st ball, table goes down to pick up pins but fingers don't close. Machine registers a strike and I have to respot pins. When this started happening, I replaced the plug at the chassis and things worked fairly well for awhile, but it is now doing it again. Ideas? I will be checking pins and sockets when I get to work.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First of all, the fingers not closing is not an electrical problem. The fingers are controlled only with mechanical devices. The first place to check would be the pawl adjustment. (The pawl is the springy thing that comes in contact with the small "batman" cam that opens and closes the fingers.) It should have a very small gap (1/16"-1/8") between the pawl and the center hump on the cam.

Originally posted by jc:

Second problem.....5 pin. Table picks up pin, but halfway thru cycle machine reads a strike then sets a full rack on top of 5 pin. I currently have a jumper wire to another cell and the problem is gone. (Actually have 2 lanes doing this). I have replaced the respot cell twice, and run new wire from cell to table harness. What have I missed?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This problem is probably in your table cable, front wireway or chassis pins. Check all of the above and make sure that the 5 pin wire has continuity from the cell to the chassis. If not, find the problem in between. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

It was a fairly general answer but I hope it helps a little. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Louie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]

[Coors]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

Originally posted by jc:
table goes down to pick up pins but fingers don't close.
jc

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">sounds like respot rod is too long. take an 11/16" wrench. with table at zero, craw under table, loosen the lock nuts on the tie rod furthest to the 7 pin side. look up at the "springy thingy" and the "bat cam" shorten rod until you can see daylight between the two. book says 3/16" clearance.

[Joeyamfi]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Coors:
[QB][QUOTE]Originally posted by jc:
[qb] table goes down to pick up pins but fingers don't close.

Ist problem...also check respot link springs (2) and make sure they are in one piece.
2nd problem... make sure 1/4 contact nut is not out too far as it will always ground out 5 pin fingers.

[talon1189]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

Check the bracket that the green springs are mounted to on the bowling machine itself. The bracket is welded to the frame from the factory. I have seen the welds break loose several times allowing the bracket to shift forward decreasing the amount of tension of the green springs giving intermitten problems [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] as you described [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[8270_Wang]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

joey

the set screw would not be the problem for the 5 pin in this case. He said it wasnt respotting meaning it wasnt getting a ground. If it were out too far and grouding it, it would respot the 5 and wouldnt run a X cycle.

[TheLegend]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

In addition to adjusting the pawl clearance as has been mentioned above, make sure the shifter assembly is adjusted properly.

When the table goes down to feel for pins the pawl should slide under the center point of the shifter cam. If it goes above (or sticks on the center point of the cam) the fingers won't close.

Also make sure there are no loose or worn ball studs on the drive link that connects the bellcrank to the 1-2-4-7 wireway. Likewise for all the other linkages.

[jc]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

Thanks, guys. Figures that last night there was no problem at all. LOL I will check all items mentioned and see what happens. Appreciate the rapid responses. BTW...I have 82-70s.

Thx again.

[ewen]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

Originally posted by Louie:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First of all, the fingers not closing is not an electrical problem. The fingers are controlled only with mechanical devices. The first place to check would be the pawl adjustment.

Louie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img] [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Louie, are you sure the fingers not closing is not an electrical problem? On early 82-70 pinspotters, there was a respot solenoid .The respot solenoid has to energize to allow the respot arm to "swing out " and close the fingers. If the machine in question is an early version , it could actually be an electrical problem.

MARK

[Coors]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

Originally posted by ewen:
On early 82-70 pinspotters, there was a respot solenoid .The respot solenoid has to energize
MARK

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">good thought, but if the respot solenoid didnt energize the cups would rotate on the respot and people for miles around would hear the awkward crunch

[Coors]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

[Coors]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

[Louie_IV]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

[quote]Originally posted by ewen:

Originally posted by Louie:
Louie, are you sure the fingers not closing is not an electrical problem? On early 82-70 pinspotters, there was a respot solenoid .The respot solenoid has to energize to allow the respot arm to "swing out " and close the fingers. If the machine in question is an early version , it could actually be an electrical problem.

MARK

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mark....Yes I know that there is a respot solenoid on older 82-70's. I have and still do work on machines that have a respot solenoid. If the respot solenoid or the circuit for the respot solenoid was faulty, the description of the problem would have been different. As Coors said, the cups would smash into the pins. Other than that solenoid (which does not directly affect the fingers) the fingers are completely mechanical. Good thought though! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

Louie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]

[Brunsamf]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

The way I check for free movement of the assy. is to crank the table down (1st ball} where the fingers close. Then I brace myself with my feet agaist the machine so I don't hurt my back, and pull out on the respot rod far enough so the pawl flips and ease the rod back in to open and close. The two green springs should easely open and close. Do this several times to check for binding. The respot link or channel that ties the four links or {dog-legs} together can get bent causing binding. The last center I worked in the MOS did not like to use X washers which would cause the channel and links to ride up causing binding and bent studs, usually the front stud would bend or break causing a multitude of problems. These machines also were the old style that used to have the extra solenoid that were converted over using a piece of 16 ga. X 1" bent 90 degrees or so that is clamped to the spot solenoid &amp; extending over to the hook to raise it when the solenoid released. I hope I helped--Bill PS I do not know if this is the right way but it works for me.

[Tablejam]

Re: Table won't pick up pins....

Respot solenoids, I have a few of those bastards on my machines and yes, if the problem was that, when the table went down to feel for pins the cups would tilt and smash into the pins, so far on our machines when this has happened, and this could be a clue, when I get to the machine, the sweep is down at 66 deg. table up, 2nd ball light on(because the cups hitting the pins as they tilted caused it to go through an off-spot cycle) and the respot cells are partially closed. This was a dead give away that the problem was with the respot solenoid or in my case, the pin breaking which connects the respot solenoid to the respot hook and it not being able to lift the hook when it engaged. I saw the cups smash into the pins a few times and it's pretty nasty. I'm not sure if your machine is doing this but maybe in some way this will help.