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Here's one for you 70 guys

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  • Here's one for you 70 guys

    Just wanted some opinions on this one. Had a problem with 31 double cycling tonight, found some close terminals in the A&MC box. Seperated them a bit, good to go there. Later on in the evening I had a pin pile on 32 where a pin was stuck behind the pit motor, shut the switch off in the control box and BOOM, the sweep on 31 drops and gets hit with a ball. Looked at it again after the leagues were done and it seems thats the only time it's doing it now. One out of 10 times when I shut the pit off on 32 31 cycles. Any ideas here? I know certain lanes in my house cycle themselves when you shut the pit off but the other lane on the pair? This one has me scratching my head, never seen anything like this before. Thanks in advance guys [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
    All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

  • #2
    Re: Here's one for you 70 guys

    have a look at the trigger and reflector..maybe the machine is reacting to the trigger of an other machine

    Don J

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    • #3
      Re: Here's one for you 70 guys

      Don't take ANYTHING for granted with those pigs... go over everything that could cause it to cycle like that.

      As it was posted above, if you have triggering, it would be a good place to start... as to the machines cycling from flipping the pit on and off, that shouldn't happen... may be a voltage problem, a flukey cushion switch, or a wire to the switch (where in enters the plate) is worn through (which is right under the backend motor and would cause it to cycle from the vibration of the motor starting and stopping).

      A few years back, we had a lane that would cycle for no reason once in a while, and 9 times out of 10, the sweep got hit by the ball. There was hardly ever a time when it didn't get hit. We went over and over the wiring, cycle switches, chassis, cams, motors, etc... and never found a reason.

      You know how I found it? I was bowling on that pair one night... the guy on the other lane threw a gutter, started bitching and jumping up and down on the approach (fooling around). As soon as he came down on the approach, my lane cycled.

      Digging into it later that evening, I found that the 10th frame wire for that lane had worked it's way between the approach and the steel frame of the ball return. When a bowler threw the ball, if it hit hard enough, it made enough vibration in the approach to cause the wire to short against the metal frame.

      The theory was proved by dropping a ball on the center of the approach, which would cause it to cycle almost every time. So, there was the reason for the sweep getting hit all the time... the shock of the ball being thrown caused the cycle, meaning the ball was headed for the machine when the sweep was coming down. Definitely one of the stranger (and more annoying) problems we had.

      A little electrical tape, and life was good again.
      <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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      • #4
        Re: Here's one for you 70 guys

        Rep:

        Since you said that you can duplicate the problem quite often, I would do the following:

        Isolate the pinsetter from cycling from all sources.

        a)Disconnect ball triggers
        b) Disconnect SS circuit at wireway (under MP or SS Chassis) AND at the microswitch.
        c) Disconnect any scoring interfaces.
        d) Disconnect your A&amp;MC plug where it enters pinsetter...you will have to jump mgr control circuit at receptacle though.

        Now, with everything unhooked, try and duplicate the problem. If nothing, hook 1 thing back up at a time and try and duplicate again. When you come to the SS circuit, hook it up at the wireway only, but insulate the leads at the microswitch end. Try again. Then hook the micro back up. Try again. Hopefully this way you will have a better idea of where your culprit is.
        "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

        --Kat

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        • #5
          Re: Here's one for you 70 guys

          Originally posted by Kat:
          Rep:

          Since you said that you can duplicate the problem quite often, I would do the following:

          Isolate the pinsetter from cycling from all sources.

          a)Disconnect ball triggers
          b) Disconnect SS circuit at wireway (under MP or SS Chassis) AND at the microswitch.
          c) Disconnect any scoring interfaces.
          d) Disconnect your A&amp;MC plug where it enters pinsetter...you will have to jump mgr control circuit at receptacle though.

          Now, with everything unhooked, try and duplicate the problem. If nothing, hook 1 thing back up at a time and try and duplicate again. When you come to the SS circuit, hook it up at the wireway only, but insulate the leads at the microswitch end. Try again. Then hook the micro back up. Try again. Hopefully this way you will have a better idea of where your culprit is.
          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a good idea, except I would do it the other way around. I would leave everything hooked up the way it is and disconnect one thing at a time and see if the problem goes away after each time you disconnect something. If it does, then you know exactly where to look. If you disconnect everything at one time, you might move the culprit wire that was causing the problem and the problem might disappear and you won't know which wire(s) was causing the problem which will start you down an endless road of searching and confusion. Then you will have to wait for the problem to eventually come back before you can really find the problem. Just some advice from experience. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

          Louie [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]
          Experience: Currently Help Maintain 44 82-30s and 50 82-70s.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Here's one for you 70 guys

            Thanks for the replies guys, as far as something like "G"'s problem I doubt it's that as I checked it when no one was near the pair, but I guess it could be a wire somewhere. We have no triggering just the old SS's so nothing doing there (my apoligies, should've stated that in my earlier post). I showed one of the other mechanics today what it was doing, took me longer to get it to do it but it did. I had to turn 32's pit on and off literally about 50 times before it did it but eventually 31 did cycle. We had some scoring problems and other B.S. stuff that needed to be done today so I didn't really get to look at it much, I'll try again Thursday I guess as I'm off tomorrow. Thanks again guys, any other input to this total oddity is welcome [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
            All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Here's one for you 70 guys

              If you don't have electronic triggering then check the start switch microswitch and the start switch plate.

              The microswitch compresses with age (especially if they don't have the guard on them)to the point where any vibration will cause a cycle. If theres a crack anywhere in the plate. Replace it. Cracked switch plates will flex enough from the spring pulling on it to also cause a cycle.
              -- Larry

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