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Whats the point?


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  • Whats the point?

    Ok, somebody kindly tell me what the point of these stupid white rollers on the distrib is (the eccentric and concentric bearings) I mean, I know you need the concentric bearings so it can slide, but why did they make some eccentric? Seems like they just wanted to give us headaches! you move them at all and ALL it does is make it so the distrib wont trigger at the 7,8,9, or 10 pin spots (because the moving roller/arm assembly drops in the back making the stop blade not lower. Last week it seemed like ALL of our pileups were from those darn rollers!

  • #2
    Re: Whats the point?

    Adam, buddy,

    1. Clean all tubes and rollers extensively. Leave no residue.

    2. Ask a veteran mechanic to show you how to adjust a distributor.

    3. Take a pen and notebook with you when he does this. Take good notes.

    4. Read the adjustment manual. Re-read it a few times over.

    5. (must be after steps 1-3) Adjust some. Watch what happens. Learn from what happens.

    6. Remember, machines are like women. Each machine has it's own personality, and some are friendlier than others.

    Trust me, this is the way.
    A man named John Zircher engineered the 70C distributor. He was more brilliant than you or I can ever imagine. Trust in his brilliance, take your lumps, it will work good for you.



    • #3
      Re: Whats the point?

      Nice post, Chad!

      Learning from someone that is experienced with making adjustments on the distributor is the best way... the book leaves out a lot of the little details you need to make them run good.

      The distributor is a tricky piece of equipment... about the most difficult mechanical part of the machine to learn adjustments on. Especially the roller adjustments.

      One of the main mistakes made when adjusting rollers is that "noticeable drag" part (adjust the roller down until there is a noticeable drag against the carriage tube when turned). Everyone seems to want the 'noticeable drag' part to mean that you adjust it until you need a pipe wrench to turn the roller against the tube. Noticeable drag means just that... <u>slightly more friction against the tube than if the roller was turning freely</u>.

      With a little practice and a few headaches, you'll get the hang of it. It has very good reinforcement to the learning... you get it right, or you babysit the machine for the league. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
      <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>


      • #4
        Re: Whats the point?


        The main purpose behind those eccentric rollers is to align the front carriage assembly with the trip tube assembly.

        Without this ability.... you'd have all sorts of distributor indexing problems.

        The two posts above this one are very informative.
        -- Larry


        • #5
          Re: Whats the point?

          Ditto! Bravo! (Self-)experience and that of others are the key, especially when dealing with Zircher's genius-babies. (He also had his hand in the light ball sensor project, if I'm not mistaken. Seems like one of his offspring)


          • #6
            Re: Whats the point?

            Carraige adjustments (made with the eccentric rollers) can for sure be a pain sometimes. But those rollers are very important and are like that for a reason. When the carriage isn't adjusted properly (as some of yours are by your posts) the dist will pile up constantly doing what you said not indexing properly especially in the back row. But once they're right they'll run great, I did a carraige adjustment about 3 months back at work and had maybe 2 pin piles on that lane since. It is kinda a pain but the adjustment is needed as the tubes start to bend slightly, etc the adjustment will change and the eccentrics allows you to have an adjustment. Very good posts in this thread, and an excellent point by "G" as usual, I agree the book could use more info and detail on the dist section, as you gain experience dist problems aren't so bad but when you're fresh meat YIKES, the dist is definately one of the more tricky areas of the machine and definately one of the most sensitive, they do need a lot of tweaking many times
            All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/


            • #7
              Re: Whats the point?

              I’ve always said that either a genius or a mad man designed the dist. Now that I know that he’s also responsible for the LBS, I know that he’s BOTH.

              Speaking of eccentric rollers, who sells the best one? I’ve tried several &amp; none have been “true”. Meaning that the nylon isn’t completely round. They all have high &amp; low spots, making them difficult to get a good adjustment. I’ve spent countless hours filing &amp; sanding them into submission.

              Anyone else have the same problem?


              • #8
                Re: Whats the point?

                Same problem here. You adjust them to get that "noticable drag" and then when you move the carriage slightly the drag disappears. Then you readjust to get drag again and when you move the carriage again it's too tight on another part. I've been using Vantage as they seem to be better than AMF, but that's just my own preference.



                • #9
                  Re: Whats the point?

                  Well, thanks guys... I really didnt think about roller wear or the tubes bending when I was thinking they should just have concentric bearings all the way around... oh, and before even looking at the book I had the correct order/reasoning down... but I failed to notice the few "bumps" in the rollers.... turns out the stupid things (caused by wear) were causing the rollers to stop turning at certain spots, or at least cause drag in/on the rollers...! I'll keep you informed on how they do from here on out (were fine tonight) oh, and why'd you call it a 70C distrib? *blinks* And last but not least... our center (10 lanes) only has the main mechanic and myself, and the main mechanic has only worked on AMF machines for about 3-4 years... So we're both learning a lot of this together. Its pretty neat how everything works... and I love the machines! Just gets really annoying when something you've NEVER touched goes out of whack on 3 machines in one week [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]


                  • #10
                    Re: Whats the point?

                    When adj the eccentric roller's don't forget to check the condition of the tube's
                    When i took over the centre i'm at now i had 50-60 pile ups a week, worn tubes were about 20% of my problems.
                    I just done my F.P.S. tonight and had 6 pile up's for a 24 lane centre doing 3500-4000 games a week.
                    Come a long way, looking forward to getting rid of those last few.


                    • #11
                      Re: Whats the point?

                      Yes, the tubes are very important, slight bend or wear (which I was referring to in my earlier post) can be adjusted out with the eccentrics but if it gets bad enough, you can mess around all you want and you won't get that carraige adjusted :p
                      All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/


                      • #12
                        Re: Whats the point?

                        The trip rod/stop blade assembly is another trouble spot that will trip you up with adjustments... If you have steel trip rods with the aluminum casting pinned into them (where the stop blade mounts), make sure that there is no 'play' in the rod where the steel meets the aluminum. If there is, it causes another 'pivot point' in the linkage, and it can cause problems. I repaired a lot of them like that... knocked the original pin out of it, drilled the hole slightly larger and installed a hair fatter roll pin to tighten it up... Then turned it 90 degrees, and drilled another pinway above the original one (just high enough to miss the existing pin), installed another roll pin, and then ground the ends of the pins off so they were smooth to the steel rod. With two pins in an 'X', there's almost no way for it to rock or pivot from wear... the repair only takes a couple of minutes, and the trip rods are expensive enough to make them worth repairing.

                        Another mistake that a lot of guys make when adjusting rollers is when they push back the distributor carriage to position it for adjustment, they inadvertently lift up or push down on it. This causes the carriage tubes to flex or pivot, and it'll give an 'untrue' adustment.

                        I saw a lot of rollers with the "bumps" in them. Sanding them is usually the way to fix small imperfections, but to be accurate, you need a micrometer to pinpoint just where the bumps are, and how much sanding needs to be done to get rid of them... otherwise, you're usually just adding more 'bumps' to it in other places. A wooden dowel that's very close in size to a carriage tube (or a piece of old carriage tube) with a piece of fine sandpaper around it makes the best sander. Small deviations usually won't hurt the adjustments as much as you think... 9 times out of 10, it's just simple misadjustment.

                        For a little lubrication on the cariage tubes, to prevent some of the wear, try Synco's "Super Lube" Dri-Film lubricant. It won't attract or collect dust like oil does, and won't gum up the rollers, either. Good stuff.
                        <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>


                        • #13
                          Re: Whats the point?

                          One more thing to watch out for when replacing or adjusting those rollers. The upper roller may not be perfectly above the lower one, groove wise.
                          This will be evident when you get that noticeable drag on both front and rear, but when you move the carriage to the rear and rock the rear of the carriage from side to side, there still seems to be too much play. Then look at the rollers very closely and you'll see the tube seated properly in one roller, but touching only one side of the groove of the other. If this is still a problem after replacing one of the rollers, it may be a problem with the casting.
                          Or, the rollers themselves may vary. I've always used Vantage because they had the least amount of slop or play. But their center hubs are pressed into a standard bearing, so you have to check and make sure you can't push the center hub out with your thumbs. If you can, return it. If not, make sure the hub is fully seated. If it still doesn't place the "V" groove in the same place exactly as the others, then the nylon ring is probably at fault, in which case return it.
                          You can compensate by shimming, if you have the proper thickness if washer or arbor shim. A 1/32" thick (.031) shim usually does it.
                          A mod I came up with to eliminate this problem replaces the upper grooved bearings with flat rollers. The lower grooves are sufficient for guiding the carriage, while the upper flat rollers provide the "noticeable drag".
                          There are several ways to make these un-grooved rollers. I'll gather up the info on the parts and check back. If anyone is interested, please post here or start a new thread. I'll keep an eye open.


                          • #14
                            Re: Whats the point?

                            Originally posted by Adam:
                            oh, and why'd you call it a 70C distrib? *blinks*
                            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The 70C distributor is what most of us are used to... they're very common, and you may have only seen that type. There was an earlier '70 distributor that was kind of a cross between an 8230 and an 8270 distributor, or maybe just an animal all it's own. Ever notice the blank spots in your control boxes that are labeled "Dist CB" and "Dist. Mtr. Stepper Zero"? The distributor used to have it's own motor... it and the camwheel were mounted to the rails of the machine, and a rod attached to a cam follower moved the distributor.

                            Here's some pics... click on them to enlarge:
                            (The links will open a new window to the pic)

                            8270A Distributor:

                            8270A Distributor Drive:
                            <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>


                            • #15
                              Re: Whats the point?

                              the rollers are adjustable????? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

                              i thought you just bent the carrage tube [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]


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