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**8270king** · 12-29-2003, 01:03 AM

**TheLegend** · 12-29-2003, 03:15 AM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Slick job!!!

When I worked in Reno we had 10 chassis that were converted to C23s. But the PM and CM (?) sockets were mounted on an angular piece of sheet metal that was riveted to the box.

**wb8yjf** · 12-30-2003, 11:48 AM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

AMF made a C-23 version of the S/S chassis. Not a whole lot of them around, but I have a few. If they only made the C1 & C2 plugs like that, just think of the headaches that would have been avoided! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

**TheLegend** · 12-31-2003, 10:05 AM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Originally posted by wb8yjf:
AMF made a C-23 version of the S/S chassis. Not a whole lot of them around, but I have a few. If they only made the C1 & C2 plugs like that, just think of the headaches that would have been avoided! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

At Reno we had 40 of the C-23s (plus the two spares) and the 10 converted Elcos. At the center in El Cajon, all 50 were C-23s (plus a spare... and we had one rebuilt Elco from Murrey).

**Dutch** · 12-31-2003, 07:41 PM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

King,

While at the Reno Hilton I did the same thing with our APS cables. Looks better & makes changing a chassis easier & faster. (Not to mention the “kick” factor)

Originally posted by TheLegend:
At Reno we had 40 of the C-23s (plus the two spares) and the 10 converted Elcos. At the center in El Cajon, all 50 were C-23s (plus a spare... and we had one rebuilt Elco from Murrey).

Larry,

Right idea but reverse the #’s – 10 C-23’s & 40 converted Elco’s.

They’re slowly replacing those chassis with the Omega-Tek chassis (nice) so I’ve got spare chassis parts coming out of my ears at Greenbrae. I took the C-23 conversions off all the old chassis at Hilton & I’m putting them on our Elco’s at Greenbrae in preparation for automatic scoring installation this spring. I’d get the whole chassis but they’re being cannibalized as they come off.

The place has changed a lot since you were there. Parts orders that used to be processed in a week or 2 now take 3-6 months. (Gotta love corporate streamlining) Carol Tarson was the last of the old crew to be fired, last summer. She now works for Coconut Bowl (the new center at Wild Island Amusement Park, in Sparks) & part time for us, at Greenbrae Lanes. She took 650 bowlers with her from the Hilton this season & another 500 or so will be leaving next season & coming to Greenbrae. They (Hilton management)didn’t have a clue that she had that kind of following. Of coarse it doesn’t help that they got rid of all of their “A” mechanics too. Their Head Mechanic has only been wrenching for about 3 years. The place is falling apart & it isn’t his fault. He just doesn’t have the experience or the help to maintain a 50 lane center. Their trouble call ratio, which had always been around 200 lines per call, is now about 80-100. (Just guessing by how many calls we have on our league. I haven’t seen the actual figures)

**TheLegend** · 01-01-2004, 11:43 PM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Huh.... for some reason I remembered the chassis count the other was. Oh well.... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

I have no doubt it's changed a lot since '87. They still have most of the National gearboxes or have they been getting replaced? It was hard enough getting parts for them even back them and we had just begun switching over the motors.

**Coors** · 01-02-2004, 12:46 PM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

CTI adapter

**8270king** · 01-02-2004, 08:49 PM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Make your own cable......just run the 6 or so wires used for 1st/2nd ball, X, ground, foul, power into the C-23 plug and throw that green Elco fuucktard plug away.

**TheLegend** · 01-03-2004, 09:45 AM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Originally posted by 82/70 king:
Make your own cable......just run the 6 or so wires used for 1st/2nd ball, X, ground, foul, power into the C-23 plug and throw that green Elco fuucktard plug away.

Don't be so hard King.... I had to repair a few Elcos once (on a Mod IV mask cable end). [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

**Dutch** · 01-06-2004, 12:44 AM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Originally posted by TheLegend:
I have no doubt it's changed a lot since '87. They still have most of the National gearboxes or have they been getting replaced? It was hard enough getting parts for them even back them and we had just begun switching over the motors.

Believe it or not about 90% are still going strong. John Morris & I made some modifications to them that made more sound & easier to repair when they did go bad.

**MikeM** · 01-06-2004, 12:06 PM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Dutch, what did you do to the nats?

m

**Dutch** · 01-06-2004, 04:11 PM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

I attribute most of the longevity of the motors to being kept clean. They get blown out once a month, so they run cooler. No dust to impede the airflow. And, unlike GE & WH motors, Nationals don’t get oil in them when the gearbox leaks, so there’s nothing to hold the dust inside.

Most of what I call mods were common sense, beef them up & clean them out, type stuff.

On the motors that the windings weren’t coated well when manufactured we sprayed the windings with some extra insulating material. I don’t remember what it was but it didn’t change the look other than to thicken the coating that was already there.

When we changed over to solid-state start switches we removed everything that wasn’t needed. No switch board, no multiple spliced wires, and no centrifugal mech. Nothing that would raise the operating temp or impede the cooling process. All terminals were soldered on & reinforced with shrink-wrap. The SSSS were mounted outside the motors, on the wireways. Less vibration & heat. They were connected to the motors via a modular plug (Molex, I believe) for quick replacement. This also made the motor easier to work on since it almost eliminated internal connections, which, as we all know, are the root of most electrical problems.

Brand new bearings were washed out & repacked with Amsoil synthetic grease. We stopped using Bellville washers & started using a bearing sealer (blue locktite) to keep the bearings from moving around & wearing out the seats. Yes, that made them harder to dismantle but it also made it so that they didn’t have to be dismantled.

There’s only 5 ways that a motor can go bad (windings, bearings, wire connections, start capacitor & start switch). We took care of 4 out of the 5. If anyone knows how to make the capacitor more reliable, I’m all ears.

Oh, I almost forgot. We drained all of the gearboxes & put Amsoil in them too. Very expensive but worth it IMO.

**TheLegend** · 01-07-2004, 06:23 AM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Originally posted by Dutch:
Believe it or not about 90% are still going strong. John Morris & I made some modifications to them that made more sound & easier to repair when they did go bad.

How is ol' "Chainsaw" Morris? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

**TheLegend** · 01-07-2004, 06:38 AM

Re: Chassis Elco to C23

Re: the SS switches.

I remember installing the early SS switches (the ones they encased in a block of urethane) from Quality on many of those motors. We made the mistake of mounting them on the stator case, which would cause a lot of premature failures (because of excessive heat).

After I went back to CA, and took a head mechanic's job at a small center I mounted the newer versions (they'd switched to a hollow plastic case by then) on the lid, and they'd hold up much longer.

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