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82-70 Shuttle Problem?

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  • 82-70 Shuttle Problem?

    Can anyone offer up some suggestions on this problem. We are having trouble with pins falling through the shuttle. Usually when there are sets of pins in the bins. A couple of lanes it is the head pin falling through. Usually after a strike. And on some of the lanes it is the 2 or 3 pin that falls through. I am trying to find some suggestions for my mechanic to eliminate this problem. Also seems like we are having quite a few pins fall through and get jammed or wedged between the table/fingers & wire track and another pin or pin cup. This may be seperate problems but, I think that they are related some how. Any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

    Rusty.

  • #2
    Re: 82-70 Shuttle Problem?

    Pic and bumped thread

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    • #3
      Re: 82-70 Shuttle Problem?

      Shuttles can be very troublesome.
      For starters ensure that the shuttle has all its straps on securly. This is not obvious from looking down on the bin. You will find that a strap will break just to the side of the screw and be impossible to locate only untill the shuttle is off the machine, and in clear light. (or your under the machine with good light)

      Check for bent support arms. Ensure that the bars are straight and that there are no bends in them. Left to right, or up and down, even more importantly. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
      Read past topics such as " doubling the seven pin" and "shuttle not squre to pin deck" for other help.
      This is helped me enormously. I am currently trying to re-align my shuttles at present as have very old machines ( 35 yrs +)
      Make sure that you have a 7/8ths of an inch gap both sides, from bin to shuttle, vertically. Use the gauge (if you have one) to measure the clearance from the shuttle to bin horizontaly. There is a tollerance here, which will guide you. (no more than 2 inches maximum).
      The best solution I have come up with is this. To test a shuttle make sure 10 pins are in there bin spaces. Push all ten pins to the front of there bin spaces. So that there are touching there bin stops. With this done shuttle them through and see if any pins stick in the shuttle. ie, do not shuttle into cups or jam the shuttle whilst in the process. With this sucessfull, the next test is to fill the bin with 20 pins. The first ten in there bin spaces , but the next 10 push them back quite alot in there bin spacing. (put the heads of the pins beyond the black, flat bin fixture). If your machine doubles a pin, then you now you have to adjust the shuttle. Even just half a turn on the rod can make all the difference.
      Point - ensure that the nut on the front of the shuttle rod is secure. (at front of machine, shuttle cam area) This too can cause problems with bad shuttling. Also check that the compression spring is tought. DO not put washers onto it to add pressure. This is a mith. The spring works by compression. Ensure the rod does not touch the bin at all. (through the round hole in the bin.)

      Anywon else got a better procedure please post it as would good to know. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

      PS- Kings fix is good, but feel that i would rather have 3 bolts through my support in the shuttle. This is just a qiuck fix cause the shuttle is not adjusted properly!!
      Bring me the freshest "Mean Green" known to man! Juice on!

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      • #4
        Re: 82-70 Shuttle Problem?

        The gap in the bin should be looked at, but if your machines are more than just a few years old, don't necesarily go by the book... they may never run right. Wear, fatigue, deck cutting, previous adjustments, etc... all cause the 'spec' measurements to fall off. Adjust it to the book for a starting point, and that's all... from there the adjustments may have to be 'tweaked' away from the book standards to run right. With adjustments, we always followed the principle of "if it works, then it works... and damn what the book says." It's never failed us... if the book adjustment is 3/8", but it runs better with 1/2" on it, then so be it.

        King's method works rather well... it can be considered a permanent fix. For how much weight the pin holders actually handle, three 1/4"-20 bolts is a bit of overkill on the part of AMF. The guides never break at the bolts anyway... they usually break where they hang off of the shuttle rail.

        Another one we have used is to add 1/4" or 3/8" thick blocks of plastic to the "buttstops" in the bin to keep the pins shifted back a hair towards the rear of the bin, where the pin holders can hang on to them a bit longer when shuttling. We drill 1/8" holes through the stops and into the block, then pop rivet them on from the back. It's a very quick fix that has been running on a couple of our machines for years without problems.
        <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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        • #5
          Re: 82-70 Shuttle Problem?

          First off let me echo the thoughts of Gman is reguards to throwing out the book when it comes to setting older machines. If you have wood lanes over the years of sanding, the distance between the bin and table increases. This makes it harder for the pins in the cups to hold the pins in the bin properly during shuttling. Remember that the back row of pins sits differently than the rest of the pins. On my machines I take the two shuttle adjusting rods and lower the shuttle so that it sits just above and not touching the cups when the table is cranked to its full height. Also I take piece of metal about 1" wide and 5" long, bend it 1" at a right angle, and mount it centered to the 7, 8, and 10 along the back of the bin. This will push the pin a little forward in the bin and stop any chance of a pin getting under the back of the shuttle. If there is a problem with the front pins, shim the pin holders down the same way. Another thing that can cause doule shuttling in the back row is, that when the second pin hits the butt guide it slides backwards on the first pin and goes over the back of the bin. When shuttling happens that second pin dives through and DOUBLE SHUTTLE. Unless you sit on the machine for awhile you'll never catch it. I've taken my back row pin guides and stood them straight up (with the use of a special template that I made) so as to catch and hold that second pin from sliding back to far. On my machines I've been able to lower the shuttle 1/2" down without any problems. Been running this way for about 3 years now. If I'm not to clear on this let me know and I'll try to explain better and maybe with some pictures.

          AMFDOCTOR
          The Doctor Makes House Calls
          AMF DOCTOR
          The doctor makes house calls.
          http://s427.photobucket.com/home/AMFDOCTOR/index

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          • #6
            Re: 82-70 Shuttle Problem?

            Ok, I just kinda skimmed this toppic... but.... If you have pins double shuttling in the front 3 (1, 2, or 3 pin) it is usually distrib related.... If the distrib is too far left/right, or the trip arms are "twisted" (one higher than the other due to bad keys in the arm shaft) or the distrib is too high.... the head pin may double shuttle after a strike... the head pin will get there just as the shuttle moves... but it will come off the rails leaning REALLY far foreward (butt down, head way up) because it isnt sliding down the rails right (may also be caused by bad rollers on the headpin guide rails) As for double shuttling 2-3 pins... check to see if you distrib is swinging... I've seen them swing so bad they put the 3 pin in the head pin, 5 pin, or 2 pin slot! A double shuttle will often happen if the pins are laying over the bin dividers..... Another little trick for 7/10 pins.... if you loosen up the bolts that hold the little rubber shock mounts (the ones that hold up the butt guides) just a bit... it'll let that flex more.... Our chief mechanic pointed out that they screwed up the design.... if you look, the 8, and 9 pin butt guides are tilted back FARTHER than the 7, 10 pin guides.... Why? shorter throw... well, the 7, and 10 pins should have it too, as they have the sharpest angle the pin must turn.... either way, loosening up those shock mounts did the trick for us! AMF doctor is right about the pins sliding over the back of the bins... some machines will only double shuttle when the pin is this way, others will only do it when the pin is over the SIDE divider.... others will do it with it sitting flat in the bin.... Its just an age thing, the shuttles/bins BEND (the 7/10 pin shuttle frame the most, because it only has ONE bolt, one bracket, and one bin strap to hold it in shape!

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            • #7
              Re: 82-70 Shuttle Problem?

              Hey thanks for the suggestions. I will pass along to my mechanic tomorrow and if he has any questions I will get back with you.

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