modifications

[scotty]

i was just wondering what the best modification that has cut down on calls for you guys. i have been tweeking my machines and wanted to cut down on some of the calls at the center im at.

scotty

[DavidC]

Re: modifications

One of my best mods is doing away with table plug and all the wires. I take 4 wires from wireway board and run them down to each wireway.(one wire in each wireway)Then I use a 5" piece of wire to go from each respot cell to a flag terminal I put in wireway. I have wires made up so if a terminal breaks all I have to do is put another wire on.

[TheGMan143]

Re: modifications

When we got out autoscoring, we just completely did away with the table wiring, leaving only the GP switch wires. Got rid of all those pesky "phantom pin" respot cycles from a shorted wire.

Adding a block of plastic cut at a 45-degree angle to the underside edge of the table also cut down on pin calls... it pushes over standing pins in the gutter instead of creating an offspot.

Changed over all the decklights to electronic ballasts got rid of a lot of nuisance calls for lights going out, not coming on, or flickering... it also eliminated the starters. We also encased all the flourescent lights in tube guards... it doesn't happen often, but if a pin flies up or a bulb comes loose, it's really nice to pick up a plastic tube full of broken glass instead of picking up most of the shards during a league (which never fail to fly over on to the next lane as well), and the rest with your hands and knees when working on the machines.

Added a spring/chain/turnbuckle setup to the kicker arms so they can be adjusted more easily (and precisely) than doubling up on the springs.

Got rid of all the old-style respot cell finger slides (the ones with the roll pin) and replaced them with the nylon 'button' slides.

[craigchandler]

Re: modifications

MODIFICATION - something you input because you have no idea of how it really works

2500 fps without a single mod

[TheLegend]

Re: modifications

Originally posted by craigchandler:
MODIFICATION - something you input because you have no idea of how it really works

2500 fps without a single mod

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nyah..... I disagree with that.

There are mods that save you a lot of dinero over time. Also, lot of the "new and improved" parts you see from the manufacturers were some center mechanic's mod once.

[DavidC]

Re: modifications

If there were no mods we would all still be working on 82/30's or older.

[TheGMan143]

Re: modifications

Craig: Good for you! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] Hey, if they run like that without mods, be happy... no one is going to fault you for it.

but then again...

How old are your machines, what model are they, were they installed new (and to correct spec), how much lineage do you get, how much wear is on them, and what's your parts budget?

A lot of us work on machines that had an installation that left a lot to be desired, or were beat up over the years by lack of maintenance, parts, experience, money, etc...; went through fires, floods, earthquakes, and who knows what else, or that are just so old that they're wearing out and "book spec" has gone right out the window a long time ago. For those machines, modifications aren't just playing around... they're pretty much a necessary evil to keep the stops to a minimum.

We're not talking about 'duct tape &amp; baling wire' fixes here. A good modification that saves time and/or money, that runs longer, or does it's job better than the original, is more than worth it.

A good mod has nothing to do with "not knowing anything about it"...those are known as "rigs" (sometimes "rigs" turn into "mods", too... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] ). It's all about knowing the machine well enough to realize you can change things to make it run better.

[Rep]

Re: modifications

Excellent post as always "G". We're a split house and got a **** install on one side machines are way close together (not as bad as yours tho G, I remember you telling me) and also as you said, our 70's are going on 40 years old and werent properly taken care of in the past (I wouldn't say abused, as it wasnt that bad, but the care still wasn't right) so the book to us is nothing more than a starting point, ours must be tweaked and modded from there. Parts and assemblies do improve, AMF themselves sell official mods (kicker - PBL for example) so they're not all bad. Time just changes things thats all [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[Coors]

Re: modifications

another aspect to consider is the amount of oil they put on lanes "down under".

kicker ball returns, and snake skin dist belts run great where they oil lanes once a week, 10 feet buff to 30.

[craigchandler]

Re: modifications

hey guys

i understand the factors you tend to adopt, when you take on these disaster houses, i keep moving from house to house seeing the same things happen all the time

you walk into these houses and see the following

cable ties on stretched linear springs and these springs wrapped up as far as they can possibly reach without being connected onto the bin

cable ties on counter balance springs on rear of dizzy, because one spring has been stretched due to some genius thinking that will compensate for the flooged out clutch or trip assy

kicker rollers that have been sanded for grip, when really they have no grip

cut down elevator bumpers

insulation tape wrapped around plug wires, most aren't even soldered, just twisted together

added items to the bin, for whatever stupid reason

torque tubes bent, or excessive spacing in the table leg assy to get machine to put pins near on spot

spacer washers all over the dizzy, or bumpers missing, brackets bent etc etc etc

washers under bounce plates, extra brackets welded onto bounce plates etc etc etc

i have seen every possible mod known to man kind, and for every centre i goto that adopts these policies they adopt no better than a 100 fps rating

i am all for a quick fix, whether it be for financial reasons, lack of parts or any reason that can come without notice

but a quick fix should be just what it says

as for the oil in australia, everywhere i have worked easily covers 70-80 units in the heads, and running down to 35' and buffing that to between 38-40'

i think way too many guys get the wrong impression when they come on here and adopt these short term fixes as a way to save a dollar in the short term, but sooner or later it will come back to bite them in the bum.

i also believe its a bad mentallity to adopt, and definately a bad one to pass on to others.

i understand the manufacturing side of things, and yes some fantastic ideas have come from the techs worldwide

but for gluing a bit of something on a part, cable tieing, drilling extra holes, bending, jacking, stretching etc etc etc [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]

it just dont cut it in these eyes

since when has lineage had anything to do with a frame per stop

if you have 110 frames per week for 1 call, or you have 11000 frames per week for 100 calls it still adds to the same fps, but for your information we ran 28 lineage over 24 lanes, with 70's can't tell you the year, for our 2500 fps

i dont want anyone taking this personal, but for the guys that say they have seen all these things and had to deal with it, realise where i am coming from, and how badly it can be blown out of proportion

i think i got it all out, you will soon tell me if i haven't [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[TheLegend]

Re: modifications

Craig...

I doubt if anyone here would take it personally. Because to most of them there's a big difference between a "mod" and a half-assed repair.

I mean let's face it. These machines were designed to run when balls were rubber, and lane oil contained 35% (or more) solvents and you scored by hand. Times change and so have the demands on the machines.

Add to that they have inherited design flaws to begin with (usually because of compromises made in the R&amp;D stage).

And add again the fact that most of the machines out there have fallen out of their installation specs since they were installed (if they were even installed correctly to begin with).

[TheGMan143]

Re: modifications

I do agree... a house that put a 1/2-a$$ 'quickie' fix on a machine to get it through the night, then fixes it correctly the next day is doing OK. But when the 'night' becomes the next 5 years, there's a problem.

I have no problems some 'rigs' like adding a kicker spring or a zippie to a lateral spring to prevent sway on a distributor... it's a known problem-solver that really CAN'T be fixed correctly... other than buying a custom spring that has more tension. For example... our lanes 1-16 came from overseas, japan if I'm correct. They fiddled with pulley sizes, gearbox ratios, etc..., so the machines run like they're on fast-forward all the time. When the distributor indexes from one bin to another, it's moving fast enough that it sways... especially if it's up front with another pin on the way up. It's the simple physics of momentum that cause it to sway... to counter it, we heavy up our lateral springs and they run good.

Yes, we could fix it "correctly" by buying all new gearboxes, sheaves, etc... that make the machines run at the correct speed. Have you priced what a new gearbox &amp; motor cost lately? We'd have to double up on profits for a couple years just to pay off the debt that we'd run up by "fixing the machines" back to what the book says they're supposed to be. So you weigh the options... run the machines like the book says and put up with constant calls and mad bowlers, or use a 'rig' that puts the FPS up where it ought to be.

Like you said... some places are OBVIOUSLY rigging and cutting corners to save $$$, and it shows. Others are 'modifying' to make due with what they have, and to make the machinery run as good as it can under the circumstances... like previously-modified machines, wear on major assemblies that are cost-prohibitive to replace en masse, or poor installation.

I look at it this way... if someone can show me a way to apply duct tape to the machine so it runs for months without a stop or a need for repairs, I'll stock up on duct tape. FPS is always the bottom line... if it looks a little ugly, but it runs for months or years on end without a hitch, then so be it. But I won't be a part of any 'rig' that requires regular 're-rigging' to keep it working... it's a waste of time and very trying to the patience of the mechanic AND the bowlers.

[NCWINGNUT]

Re: modifications

So craig chandler what is your monthly budget on parts?

[craigchandler]

Re: modifications

sorry wingnut hadn't read this post for a while

my fps centre, was doin 100 fps when i started, i had 3 months until the australian championships, i was handed a cheque for 25,000 for 24 lanes, that was the last cent i saw go onto them machines for 18 months, then i was lucky to get $50 a week

p.s i averaged 1500 fps in 3 months from the 100 fps, that was over a 72 lineage over 24 lanes a week for 3 weeks

and i tell you it hurt like hell, everytime i had to replace a part that had been modified, bent, stretched, dented, welded etc etc etc by some unqualified numb nut who had no idea in the world what the hell they were doin

and i know some centres get next to nothing to operate with, i know know that most of them the owners / managers refuse to give them money, cause all they do is spend it on modifying and implementing stupid strategies that get them no where

i have gone to centres and got 4 times the allowance of the previous tech, because i know what i am talking about, and if i say it needs to be done, and its justifiable, they agree.

too many techs get on the defensive or dont sound convincing when talking to management so management either thinks they are stupid or misleading them

and if you work for the other half of the employers who just refuse to spend money full stop, then you are working in the wrong place, you are wasting your time and effort and knowledge, go somewhere where you can make a difference

i go to my owners i say, if i can have this amount of money for this job, and it will cut your calls by 10%, they all say yes, and i never let them down, and i have never been sacked and most importnatly i have never let my employer down

anymore questions ???

[craigchandler]

Re: modifications

COORS

last tape reading 85 units from 10-10 and 25 on the outside at 15 feet

taking that out to 40 feet

yeah its real dry...........