Strange......

[Smokey]

I got a call on 17 today. The sweep was down and the machine was on 2nd ball. Sweep reversed the sweep up. Watched the machine. On gutter or pickoff, SOMETIMES it drop the sweep, then click over to 2nd ball without the sweep moving. We have Omega Teks. I changed the expander-NG. I replaced all the sweep cam switches-NG. I did notice that when this happens, the expander says no pins on the deck, and occasionally the machine would go through a respot cycle. Checked the sweep reverse wires-no problem there. We have the Qubica BES system, and maybe a bad signal from the camera?...

[TheGMan143]

Re: Strange......

Good question... My first guess would have been the cams & switches... since you eliminated that possibility (and assuming that the wiring from the switches to the wireway is good) I'm at a loss.

It's very possible that it's related to the scoring. Since I have never seen BES, I wouldn't know where to tell you to start looking. If it's anything like our system, go into the 'pinsetter & camera setup', and copy the settings on the 'pinsetter' page from another lane that you know is working correctly. Then go on to the 'camera' page & make sure that all the pin targets are aligned correctly on the heads of the pins. Close the settings page, and restart the VDB.

[Guest]

Re: Strange......

G - The BES system runs on Conqueror, same as regular Q system.

Smokey, It does not sound like a scoring problem. Give me a little more info about what machine is doing. Is sweep dropping to guard and then going no further? Is sweep going through cycle and stopping back at second guard? What does the scoring give for a score? If it scores correctly, then you know the scoring is fine. You do not have to check anything in Camera Parameters.

Let me know more. Thanks.

[Lampie]

Re: Strange......

I don't know anything about Qubica(I have stelltronics), but simular things has happened to us when the pin time delay was put on zero seconds instead of 2.5 seconds(pin delay time will start the sweep after guard position to the back x seconds later).
When it is on zero seconds and a gutter/7-10 pickoff is thrown the sweep will run immediately in forward direction instead of reverse because the reverse signal is given too late(sweep is already running).
Mayby Qubica has a simular option.

Martin

[TheGMan143]

Re: Strange......

The more I read your first post, there almost has to be something wrong with the switches... the sweep & table camswitches control ball-cycle indexing almost exclusively. The only thing that will index the machine without moving the cams is the "stepper zero" switch on the control box. Is it possible that mebbe you have a pinched wire or a short somewhere in the wireway that could be intermittently switching ball cycles? I know if you press the stepper switch during a cycle, the machine will hang, because it resets the chassis cycle memory... the machine halts at wherever it happened to be when the stepper button was pressed.

[Smokey]

Re: Strange......

Okay, more info. The sweep drops, pauses, then moves forward just barely and stops and goes to second ball. I replaced the sweep reverse switch, the chassis, the basic board, the motor, and rechecked all the wiring. The sweep reverse works fine from the back of the machine. The really odd thing is that the machine will reverse fine 6 times in a row, then it will stop. I also find it very interesting that when the sweep stops on reverse, the expander lights (8421) are NOT lit up, indicating strike. The BES system uses XLMP's and 6 boxes and RDB's. The stepper idea is a good one. Any other ideas would be much appreciated, cause I'm gettin a little desperate....Just another fire to put out

[scotty]

Re: Strange......

it seems like all your electronics have been checked and rechecked and the only thing that comes to my head is checking your sweep cam adjustmants i know i had a lane do something simalar and it ended up being that a cams clam stud came loose and broke. just a suggestion hope it helps.

scotty

[AMFCamMan]

Re: Strange......

Hey Smokey,

Bet you are a victim of the OT 5 degree "sweep adjustment". If your triggering is tied to a sweep switch (just like AMF scoring) on your 70's then the OT board may be adjusting the sweep and pre triggering your machine. Those of you familar with the 70 start switch will recognize this. Smoke if this is the case, set the contactor nut to only contact on the full release of the switch. this should make this go away. You may have to move the switch to it's lowest position to facilitate this. I am pretty sure from your description that this is what's happening.

Jack

[TheGMan143]

Re: Strange......

Good point... but if he's using Qubica, the sweep switch probably doesn't exist. Q scoring triggers the sweep with 2 IR beams on the lane, and shifts ball cycles by jogging the cams with the sweep motor.

The sweep switches were replaced... but it still seems like a switch problem. How about the table switches? Remember, the table and sweep switches work together to keep the machine in time, and also to stop and start each other as necessary. I'm kind of grasping at straws here. Machine cycle problems are a big enough pain... when you throw scoring that controls the machine into the mix, it gets even worse.

[NCWINGNUT]

Re: Strange......

Sounds to me like your sweep and table cams are out of adjustment, we had this happen a couple months ago, we fine tuned the cams and have not had a problem since. (we also have Qubica scoring, and from what you have wrote it does not sound like a scoring problem

[Smokey]

Re: Strange......

I replaced the MK-70 board again, and the problem seems to have gone away. This doesn't make sense to me since the expander controls the sweep reverse? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] Believe me, the cams have been gone through with a fine toothed wrench. The sweep switches are gone (don't need on Qubica). I appreciate all the input guys. A mechanic in need, needs a friend indeed...

[Rep]

Re: Strange......

Originally posted by Smokey:
I replaced the MK-70 board again, and the problem seems to have gone away. This doesn't make sense to me since the expander controls the sweep reverse? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] Believe me, the cams have been gone through with a fine toothed wrench. The sweep switches are gone (don't need on Qubica). I appreciate all the input guys. A mechanic in need, needs a friend indeed...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We've had bad MK-70's effect the expander boards. On 2 seperate occasions we'd get sweep reverse on 2nd ball, it'd just run back up and switch back to 1st ball. Both cases it was the MK-70, sent back to Omega-Tek, got em back good as new. So imho it's quite possible it could be something with the MK-70, or maybe something more, time will tell...

[Guest]

Re: Strange......

Smokey, that is correct. Q triggering has nothing to do with the sweep. It did indeed sound like a board to me. I am glad it is working. Post back if it comes back around again. Sounded like you had some extra sweep movement past 66 that could have interlocked your machine. You never said that the table moved at all. Keep us posted and good luck.

[Dutch]

Re: Strange......

Smokey,

Pull your expanders. You've got enough flammable material around there to worry about without having to worry about them too. They've been nothing but trouble ever since Greg had us put them in. When you get caught up on the other stuff you can always put them back in. So what if you don't have short X &amp; gutter cycles? 99.9% of the bowlers won't notice the dif anyway.

[LancerLanesMech]

Re: Strange......

All our expanders work just fine. We did have a few problems with the mk-70 main boards though.