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Any one have the flow chart/ or diagram for the chassis logic? Any model chassis will do. Would like as many models as I can get.
Thanks all
Dan
Thanks all
Dan
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Daniel Hart
Bear, DE
*If its still not working, you need a bigger hammer* -
Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
That would probably be something that would have to come from the engineering department at AMF... the only thing that was included in the manual is a "Theory of Operation" section that explained the machine cycles. And that pretty much went out the window, because it was based on the 5-board solid-state chassis. Hardly anyone runs 5-boards anymore... most machines have been upgraded to an "omniboard" that takes the place of the original 5.
There was actually 3 different chassis for the '70... all which used different 'logic' to operate the machine:
The Stepper Chassis, which was based on earlier electronics, relays, and steppers... similar to what drove the older pinball machines and other 'entertainment' devices.
The 'SS' or 'Solid State' Chassis, which used 5 (6 if the Sparemaker was installed) electronic circuit cards that handled different functions of the machine, built in a way that they were all connected via the 'motherboard' in the bottom of the chassis:
1- Input card, contains optocoupled transistors that receive signals from the switches on the machine. Also drives outputs for relays.
2- Transistor Logic Circuits
3- Transistor Logic Circuits
4- Pindication card, contains amplifiers that drive the pindication lamps on the machine mask.
5- Power Card, regulated power supply for the chassis.
6- Drives the "Sparemaker" arrow lamps and handles the interface from the Sparemaker Computer.
Aux- Handles ball cycle memory. Called the "RRM", short for "Retentive Reset Memory"
The MP Chassis, which is a single-board unit that utilizes microprocessor-based logic to operate the machine.<span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span> -
Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
I would imagine the logic is the same or pretty close in the different chassis correct?
I am trying to design and implement virtual machines, thats why i am trying to get as much data as i can. With the logic template, i can put this in place first and build off it.Daniel Hart
Bear, DE
*If its still not working, you need a bigger hammer*Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
If you want to email me your mailing info, I'll photocopy the 'theory of operation' pages, they may help some... but they're not actually a 'flowchart' per se... more of an abbreviated step-by-step rundown of what the major circuits are doing during a cycle.
gman@globalgman.com<span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The solid state chassis that GMan referred to would have the logic diagram. AMF provided one in their I&S manual for that version machine (either the "SS" or the "C" model).Originally posted by Dan Hart:
I would imagine the logic is the same or pretty close in the different chassis correct?
I am trying to design and implement virtual machines, thats why i am trying to get as much data as i can. With the logic template, i can put this in place forst and build off it.
But as he said.... it's based upon the original 6 board setup. Still it would give you an idea on how they dealt with all the inputs and timing of that model.
The MP did things a little differently and AMF only provided the electrical diagrams to that model.-- LarryComment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks G,Originally posted by TheGMan143:
If you want to email me your mailing info, I'll photocopy the 'theory of operation' pages, they may help some... but they're not actually a 'flowchart' per se... more of an abbreviated step-by-step rundown of what the major circuits are doing during a cycle.
gman@globalgman.com
I have the description already. I need a flow diagram to put it into place.Daniel Hart
Bear, DE
*If its still not working, you need a bigger hammer*Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The solid state chassis that GMan referred to would have the logic diagram. AMF provided one in their I&S manual for that version machine (either the "SS" or the "C" model).Originally posted by TheLegend:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dan Hart:
I would imagine the logic is the same or pretty close in the different chassis correct?
I am trying to design and implement virtual machines, thats why i am trying to get as much data as i can. With the logic template, i can put this in place forst and build off it.
But as he said.... it's based upon the original 6 board setup. Still it would give you an idea on how they dealt with all the inputs and timing of that model.
The MP did things a little differently and AMF only provided the electrical diagrams to that model.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I tried to ge MP flow charts, they are not being distributed. Im sure someone will finally figure one out eventually.
I would take anything that gets me started, as I can upgrade the design as I get new information.
I should have made copies of the set I had in NJ way back. But I never expected I would need them [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]Daniel Hart
Bear, DE
*If its still not working, you need a bigger hammer*Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
[quote]Originally posted by Dan Hart:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks G,Originally posted by TheGMan143:
[qb]If you want to email me your mailing info, I'll photocopy the 'theory of operation' pages, they may help some... but they're not actually a 'flowchart' per se... more of an abbreviated step-by-step rundown of what the major circuits are doing during a cycle.
gman@globalgman.com
I have the description already thats in the manual. I need a flow diagram to put it into place. You can email me at dhart2@comcast.net with anything you have that can help. Thanks!Daniel Hart
Bear, DE
*If its still not working, you need a bigger hammer*Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
THIS ?????????
[img]http://pic2.****************/VOL26/934456/1718790/45788493.jpg[/img]So it goes.Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
Dan, I have several manuals covering all the 70's.
Some of the Manuals in the mid 80's had the logic flow charts in them. I will take a look.
MikePinspotters do not break down when they are not running!Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats the schematic. I need that too! I only have the wiring diagram.Originally posted by Lampie:
THIS ?????????
[img]http://pic2.****************/VOL26/934456/1718790/45788493.jpg[/img]Daniel Hart
Bear, DE
*If its still not working, you need a bigger hammer*Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks mike!Originally posted by Mike Stalker:
Dan, I have several manuals covering all the 70's.
Some of the Manuals in the mid 80's had the logic flow charts in them. I will take a look.
MikeDaniel Hart
Bear, DE
*If its still not working, you need a bigger hammer*Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thats the schematic. I need that too! I only have the wiring diagram.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dan Hart:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Lampie:
THIS ?????????
[img]http://pic2.****************/VOL26/934456/1718790/45788493.jpg[/img]
This is a flowchart for those not familair.
I remember the one I seen was pretty detailed, with machine state for each cycle.Daniel Hart
Bear, DE
*If its still not working, you need a bigger hammer*Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
Are you implementing it as a state machine then? Or, as a logic function system? I mean do you really want a flowchart/state diagram (which would be used for a state machine), or a logic diagram with boolean "gates" in it.
The old stepper relay system was a state machine (and techically, so is most of the Brunswick A, albeit mechanically). The 8270 solid state chassis (both 5-board and omegatek, etc) is a logic function system using boolean logic operations (and yes, it does contain a couple of "states" too).
What will the virtual machine be housed in - i.e. a computer program/simulator, or PLA/PLC, etc? Is this a hobby, or something else (I'm just curious).
I did draw a logic diagram (with "gates") ages ago, but I'd have to redraw it onto the computer to get it to you (and I'd have to find the darn thing). As someone mentioned, AMF has one already (and given the questions above, I'm not even sure it is what you want).
Interesting stuff though.
Cheers,
Andrew.Comment
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Re: 82-70 Chassic logic
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I threw that example up as a template.Originally posted by Parts Tracker:
Are you implementing it as a state machine then? Or, as a logic function system? I mean do you really want a flowchart/state diagram (which would be used for a state machine), or a logic diagram with boolean "gates" in it.
The old stepper relay system was a state machine (and techically, so is most of the Brunswick A, albeit mechanically). The 8270 solid state chassis (both 5-board and omegatek, etc) is a logic function system using boolean logic operations (and yes, it does contain a couple of "states" too).
What will the virtual machine be housed in - i.e. a computer program/simulator, or PLA/PLC, etc? Is this a hobby, or something else (I'm just curious).
I did draw a logic diagram (with "gates") ages ago, but I'd have to redraw it onto the computer to get it to you (and I'd have to find the darn thing). As someone mentioned, AMF has one already (and given the questions above, I'm not even sure it is what you want).
Interesting stuff though.
Cheers,
Andrew.
I would like both actually. Though I cant remember if there has been one designed.
What I need, its the logic state of the chassis circuits through each cycle, and related input at each step.
I did email AMF, but in my experience with them, it will be out of stock.
I had hope on making 3 Virtual machines, Both AMF, and the A2. A2 would be easiest as its pretty much a mechanical unit, and no logic really needs programmed in. But I neeed a detector manual as well as the service manual.
The 8230 is easy as well since its is stepper driven, but I dont have the data I need for the chassis.
I am designing each part seperate right now using Gmax. Problem with Gmax would be its export limitations. But its a very powerful designer, and its free.
The simulator will be a program most likely implemented in Darkbasic, VB.NET, or both.
I have been throwing it around for about 20 years and actually did a fair portion on an 8230 way back when (1980 or so), but home PC's didnt have the power and storage for such a project to be completed.
So thats the condensed version of my plan. Its primarily a hobby, though I would hope it can be used for training, and troubleshooting. It will be freely distributed to anyone wanting it.
So far, I have the lanes, masking, pindeck. kickbacks, cusion,a pin, combo motor, and torque tube designed.Daniel Hart
Bear, DE
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