machine difference

[Guest]

there are several kinds of 82-70's...i have 12 that have u shaped dist supports and solid table legs.the other 12 has tubeular dist supports and adjustable table legs.what machine is what????

[toon30s]

Re: machine difference

Sounds like you have some that left the AMF plant with 5 board chassis and some that are converted from "A"s. I'll bet some have double solenoids in the front and some do not have all of the material removed from the back row of respot cell openings on the table. Do some of them "slam" the respot cells open and close and some open and close gently? Maybe even different 7 pin resopt cell linkages? That is some of the differences I remember from when we had 4 machines that were field updated "A"s and 4 "factory" 5 board machines. I always thought the best machine (at least as far as the 82-70 anyway) was the 5 board machine with the older stepper chassis. I wish AMF had made the 82-30 chassis with the stepper removable!!!

[scotty]

Re: machine difference

we have the same setup as you 12 and 12 the tubeular dist support machines are older than the others and i guess still have solid state chasis unless you upgraded with double solinoids as toons said and the others are newer with mp chasis and a single solinoid for spot and respoting there are a few differances but not many though im not sure if there are differnt names for them not that i have ever seen anyhow.

scotty

[John_Galt]

Re: machine difference

Some have small, cast clevis and some have big, welded clevis too, huh?
Do the ones with the casting for the dist support have the tube that goes all the way up, and the L bracket is just a few inches behind the back of the table?
Most table castings have the back row of RS cell openings blocked past the end of the pindeck, but earlier ones have it open. Some might also have a retrofit kit to block the openings.
Do any chassis or pinwheel guards have decals of Mr. Pinspotter on them?
A few distributors have a 1-piece trip rocker arm and shaft.
A very few backend gearboxes are just like 82/30s except the dist output shaft is straight.
You might also run into a gearbox here or there that has 14.5 rpm gears.
1/4" pivot studs?
What type of GPS assembly?
CIS switch on the wireway?
R-S plug or Hubbell?
Kicker or PBL?
Holes in BE control box where other switches were?
What logos/# plates/escutcheons on machine?
What sweep assembly?
Bracket on front of wireway?
Extra 110 plug on front?
Wooden downsweeps?

I don't know much that's useful. Just a lot of arcane trivia. Enjoy.
Chad

[CAC1]

Re: machine difference

The Center I am at has early "B" machines converted to mp with pbls. I have the cast distributor mounts with the L bar that the curtain attaches to next to the table. The back row of cell holes in my tables are all the way open.
The cell rail going to the7 pin cell are short with a long carb link to the cell. An interesting note that a previos mechanic romeved all our ball lift shocks and made a spring bracket with two springs to force the lift down. It works better than shocks and doesnt beat up the lifts or wear out parts.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: machine difference

Originally posted by CAC1:
I have the cast distributor mounts with the L bar that the curtain attaches to next to the table.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The "guillotine" machine.

[TheLegend]

Re: machine difference

Originally posted by JBEES:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CAC1:
I have the cast distributor mounts with the L bar that the curtain attaches to next to the table.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The "guillotine" machine.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No kidding.....

BTW.... I had a center that had both the #7 link and the full 1-2-4-7 wireway link setups. I got rid of the old #7 link setup because it's a major source for cell locking problems.

[Steve Stafford (JBEES)]

Re: machine difference

Larry...Don at T-bird has that style machine. I'de love to see him do a conversion to eliminate that possible injury causing setup...is there such a thing? It looks like it shouldn't take much to do.

[ewen]

Re: machine difference

Steve, in the early to mid 1970's, AMF had a field conversion for the angle support ( too many injuries from getting caught between that bar, and the table-- I guess no one read the sticker about pulling power and motor plugs ).
The conversion involves turning the angle support 90 degrees ( to the rear of the machine ,so the flat surface is now on top) cutting off about 1 inch on each end of the support so the support will lay flat . The angle support was then moved rearward ( I dont remember the exact distance) . The distributor support tube was then cut and redrilled . A new curtain support bracket was then installed .The last item in the kit was new warning stickers, as the original stickers were now upside down.
I dont know if AMF would still have the kits . The parts manual does show the curtain support bracket 070007360.
Mark

[maister]

Re: machine difference

yep there are several different versions of 82/70 still out there.from those that have been converted to single solenoid , different clevis, different table support legs, and kickers to pbl.,rear of table cell stops, 7 pin cell linkage and so on.The suicide machine is the one with the distributor support close to the rear of the table and fixed to the back end close to the pindeck. The conversion is straight forward enough and the existing support tube was cut and the support bar moved back. suicide because as you have read , mechanics tried to respot pins and leant through the curtain , slipped and activated the cushion switch, cycling the machine, panicking and not getting out. I CAN FEEL THE PAIN. the old machines are just as good as ever if looked after.i worked on 82/30 in 1968 and A2 and now work on 70's,90's and xl machines and upgrade older machines to xl ones with new motors , chassis, front box etc.
In the uk amf still operate many 82/30 centres this shows the reliability of them nearly 40 years old. Some 70's i worked on recently had serial numbers which i believe date back to the 60's and they purr along just fine.
I really enjoy this section.
Thanks. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[Rizash]

Re: machine difference

we still have those junk bars up front.... you could easily lose a hand or get killed if you're not careful.... Some of our machines have the mod, just looks like an extra curtain hanger up front, the old bar moved back, and the "pipe" (the distrib. support that goes foreward to the cross-member) is cut shorter. If I had any clue exactly how to do it (measurements, etc...), I'd do it asap... that even LOOKS dangerous. We also still have 7 pin linkage, old style mounts... sweep shocks (yes, some sweep shocks still are on our machines, and will stay there as long as they run fine) had kickers, then PBLs now on tuffy air exits (from stahls) (modified PBL, pneumatic system, very nice) NO clue when our machines were updated to single solonoid, but I'm happy for that!

[Rep]

Re: machine difference

I've seen some of these older 70's. A 12 lane house I do some work in sometimes has these older setups (even has Mr. Pinspotter on the back covers) [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] My main house I work at has the newer setup on all of ours. At the other house he said AMF came in and converted one lane for him (which he showed me) to the way ours are. He said he just never did the rest as he's the only one back there (or if not him someone he knows isn't gonna do something without using their head, basically me or another guy I work full time with are the only others he has come in when need be). Anyway, it is definately neat to see the differences that's for sure, first time I went there to help him out I stared for about 10 mins at the differences before I started work lol

[TheLegend]

Re: machine difference

Originally posted by JBEES:
Larry...Don at T-bird has that style machine. I'de love to see him do a conversion to eliminate that possible injury causing setup...is there such a thing? It looks like it shouldn't take much to do.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve....

I've only been there once so I don't remember what kind of distributor mounts he has. But if they're the newer channel type then all that's required is to move the angle back to the middle bolts on each side of the tank (ie pit frames), and then cut the distributor mount back and redrill the holes where they bolt up to the angle. All of the 70's I've ever worked on were modified like this.

If they have the cast mounts with the tube on the bottom you could proably still to it, but it would require modifying the tube in some way (more than likely removing it from the cast piece and shortening it from the back end.)

Either case... a SawsAll would be mighty handy.

[John_Galt]

Re: machine difference

Almost forgot - early machines will also have two big hubs and bearings on each combo drive shaft instead of one and the little plate thing inboard to the gearbox output.
Does anybody know if this or another reason is why there is sometimes extra holes, and extra thick parts, on the ring gear casting of gearboxes (094 for GE, 179 for WH)?
Chad

[lanemech]

Re: machine difference

It is illegal to have the suicide bars still in pinspotter machines. All the parts you need to order to convert it is 1- 070007360 support weld bracket per machine. AMF came in in the 60's and changed over machines all over the US. If OSHA finds out that any of you still have this, they will come in and fine you up the wazoo. Many people were seriously hurt or killed by this. I have heard that people from AMF do monitor this website and they are not above calling OSHA on you. Better safe than sorry. Our machines have all been changed over years ago and I am glad.