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  • stahl's combo wireway relay

    In one of my centers I have westinghouse motors with stahl's black box relay. The sweep tends to coast on about 10 of them periodically. I have changed chassis, stator, checked C-1 pins, and checked the cam levers. When I put the mechanical swith stator in it is fine. Has anyone had this problem with any of these relays or could the gearbox cause this?

  • #2
    Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

    I've got twenty machines that were converted for Stahl's relays. We have some heavy duty lineage and they last for about four years. When you need to change a relay, you remove the three wires.
    The rest of the house has an assortment of different modules. This summer I plan to convert a few more machines over to Stahl's relays.
    "Gun control is the policy of tyrants"
    Rep. Rob Bishop (R-UT)

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    • #3
      Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

      The first thing to do would be to reheck your wiring to the stator, then double check it. Chassis pin 24t in your C2A plug is your sweep brake make sure they are not disconnected. Now you stated that the sweep coasts, have you tried swapping stators with the table? It is much harder to keep the table from coasting than the sweep do to the weight difference. And yes the gearbox can also be a factor if the gearbox cannot hold itself in one place it will coast because the capacitors will stop the motor but won't hold in place. Were almost done, make sure your capacitors are working properly. Since you have already changed chassis I won't go there. If interested I will tell you how to check capacitors.
      I am running Vantage solid state run winding switches with no problems exept after installing stator on sweep I loose sweep reverse control but swapping a few wires fix that problem. Good Luck.

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      • #4
        Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

        Originally posted by pinboy68:
        If interested I will tell you how to check capacitors.
        <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm interested...how do you check a capacitor to be sure it is good?
        TSM & TSM Training Development
        Main Event Entertainment
        480-620-6758 for help or information

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        • #5
          Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

          First of all pull up your wire channel cover. the sweep capacitors are labeled CSM1 and CSM2. Be safe and make sure they are discharged by placing insulated pliers or needle nose pliers across both screws of each capacitor. Now take one screw off each capacitor .(one at a time) take your ohm meter and measure the resistance between the terminals. It should take less than a minute to read 50,000 ohms. If you read 0 ohms there is a short, or no reading means there is an open. If you have a manual it is also on pages 7.13 &amp; 7.14. Let me know how it goes. If nothing works you may have to try a different style switch. I don't have the part # right now but will get it to you if you are interested. Good Luck!

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          • #6
            Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

            Originally posted by SHAW:
            In one of my centers I have westinghouse motors with stahl's black box relay. The sweep tends to coast on about 10 of them periodically. I have changed chassis, stator, checked C-1 pins, and checked the cam levers. When I put the mechanical swith stator in it is fine. Has anyone had this problem with any of these relays or could the gearbox cause this?
            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have noticed this problem too on my Sweep motors and have found that the points inside the relay develop buil-up similar to the points on the motor switches inside the stators. Open up the relay and file the contact points clean. This will ensure less resistance and good breaking. If all else fails, swap gearboxes with S&amp;T and see if your ocasional coast goes away. If it does after the swap, you may need to shim the gearbox.
            I've had some coast past the 2-3 line (of course instant interlock [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] )

            But I know exactly what you mean about the very occasional coast that drives you nuts.
            "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

            --Kat

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            • #7
              Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

              CAPS ARE GOOD. I DID CHECK THEM. I THINK I AM GOING TO CHANGE ONE TO AN AMF RELAY. I NOTICED THEIR VOLTAGE RAITING IC HIGHER. THANKS GUYS, I WILL KEEP YOU INFORMED.

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              • #8
                Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

                I prefer to switch Table and sweep motors once a year, this will prolong the life of your gearing as the table Motor carries the most load

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                • #9
                  Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

                  I have never had coasting problems with the relays.

                  Change out the contactors in the chassis to the Bowl-tronics SS units.....you will never have a coasting problem.

                  JK

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                  • #10
                    Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

                    I HAVE BOWL-TRONICS RELAYS IN MY WHOLE HOUSE.

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                    • #11
                      Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

                      Originally posted by Rabid Monty:
                      I prefer to switch Table and sweep motors once a year, this will prolong the life of your gearing as the table Motor carries the most load
                      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What we do to help prolong the life of the gear set is to remove the gearbox from the shaft, spin the stator 20 turns clockwise (to insure you go the same direction every year) and reinstall the gearbox. This causes the wear points on the gears to move every year and help them last longer. What do you guys think??? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
                      TSM & TSM Training Development
                      Main Event Entertainment
                      480-620-6758 for help or information

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                      • #12
                        Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

                        Steve, I'ts a great idea, absolutely nothing wrong with it. Besides you are also able to lube your motor splines.(hopefully with anti-seize lubricant) :p

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                        • #13
                          Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

                          Originally posted by pinboy68:
                          (hopefully with anti-seize lubricant)
                          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The only way to do it...anti-seize is your freind.
                          TSM & TSM Training Development
                          Main Event Entertainment
                          480-620-6758 for help or information

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

                            Stahl's gets those relays from Grainger. Does anyone know the Grainger part #?
                            My mom always said there was one crazy person on every bus,... but I could never find him.

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                            • #15
                              Re: stahl's combo wireway relay

                              Originally posted by Smokey:
                              Stahl's gets those relays from Grainger. Does anyone know the Grainger part #?
                              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">6X550
                              "Where are we going, and why are we in a hand basket?"

                              --Kat

                              Comment

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