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  • 5 board chassis

    Hey guys, wanted to get some input from you on this as there's many knowledgeable guys on here. I'm doing some part time work at a small 12 lane center every now and again helping out with the machines. He still has all 5 boards in his chassis. I'm not familiar at all with the 5 board setup as the main house I work at has always had SS's with MK-70's and expanders since I started there. Just looking for some input as to what to expect (he said he has some problems with the chassis), how bad is it to work with the 5 boards? What are some common problems with them? etc. Just trying to get a feel and start learning them so I can help him some more when I'm there. Thanks guys [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
    All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

  • #2
    Re: 5 board chassis

    Rep, first of all Im sorry to hear about this. If the chassis have covers, take them off. If chassis are their biggest problem, the owner would be silly not to upgrade to single board(Omega-Tech). Problems can range from Interlocks to Interlocks to even Interlocks. I know this doesn't help much, but I'm in shock. GOOD LUCK!!! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek.gif[/img]

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    • #3
      Re: 5 board chassis

      Rep,

      Never worked with the 5-board, but when I was 17, and first started working on 8270s, the guys used to tell me about the "5-board shuffle". They'd have a few sets of spares on hand and the ones coming out of the chassis went right in front of the fan. I guess they got hot?????? By the time I had started there, they had upgraded to Omegatek single boards.

      "Keep the chassis covers off" is about right. Maybe get a soldering iron too????????????? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

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      • #4
        Re: 5 board chassis

        Covers are off of them, the guy there said he plays musical boards like crazy, I was hoping to get good enough with them to just at least cut into the board shuffling some. I told him about the Omega-Tek boards and how great they work for us, hopefully he will go over to them. May not be all at once as it's a small center but even a few lanes every few months would be good. But for now the 5 boards are staying, and hopefully I can learn about them not only to help him but for my own knowledge, I always wondered how they worked [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] Thanks for the replies guys [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
        All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

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        • #5
          Re: 5 board chassis

          Taking the covers off helps, but it's not always enough. You need to move the air around. A couple of high velocity fans suspended from the ceiling makes a huge difference.

          Working on the boards themselves requires some basic knowledge in electronics. But they are not that difficult to repair if you know your way around a logic diagram and have the right test equipment (particularly a transistor tester, DVM and a board extender).

          The #5 and #1 boards will give you the most trouble.

          On the #5 board the two power transistors are the usual culprits. The one that provides the high side logic voltage is adjustable via a small potentiometer. If it's putting out too much or too little voltage, you'll get interlocks. This is where the board extender and DVM come in handy.

          On the #1 board, it'll be the photocells and neon lamps under the cover block. These can be checked visually. Lamps that look dim or "flicker" when lit, or show dark burns on the globe should be replaced. The photocells should look clean inside the lens (the wavy grid should have no dark or dirty spots on it). If they're dirty, replace them. The most common lamp/cell to go bad is the one controlling the BS circuit, followed by the TA2, then the SB. Symptoms of the BS going bad are no spotting, or heavy contactor chatter if it does perform a spot cycle. Bad SBs will result in sweep coasting at 66 degrees (and interlocks). Bad TA2s will aslo cause interlocks.

          Each of those circuits also have transistors (BS has one, the others have two) that will begin to "leak" as they fail. These transistors can be checked on the board with a transistor tester. When the BS lamp and/or photcell go bad, the transistor usually goes with it, so it doesn't hurt to change all three.

          The one other board that will give you problems is the #3. Which has the triacs for turning the table and sweep motor contactors on. The triacs are not easy to check other than changing them out, but more often you'll see the corresponding resistors underneath them burn out. If they're burnt, you can replace them with one of the same resistance value but make sure they are at least of the same wattage rating.
          -- Larry

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          • #6
            Re: 5 board chassis

            Throw away the boards and put in Omega Tek's.

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            • #7
              Re: 5 board chassis

              I AGREE! The old 5 boards are just a pain in the butt. Most are 30-40 years old and were designed when a "PC" was the size of your garage. Heck, vacuum tubes would be more reliable than those boards. One thing not mentioned was the fact that the voltages in the chassis can vary greatly from chassis to chassis. +/- 40% in many cases. That is why a board will work in one chassis and not the one next to it. Also the 3 filter capacitors in the chassis are antiques as well. These dry out over time and start to go bad, causing yet more problems. Maybe you should print this thread out and show it to the owner. Once he has an Omega Tek board in the chassis & notices far less problems with that lane, it might just nudge him over to the 20th century [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]
              Keep the 5 boards and you are guaranteed to make more work for you and anyone else in the backend... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img]

              Good luck!
              Jon [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]
              I've had enough of hope & chains.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 5 board chassis

                Oh believe me guys I want him to go to MK-70's. The main center I work in has 64 lanes and if we send back 3 boards in a season between the MK-70's and expanders, I'd consider that a bad year as far as boards go :p They are great and very reliable. Hopefully he will get them, but for now at least he's sticking with the 5 boards. Thanks for the input guys [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

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                • #9
                  Re: 5 board chassis

                  My condolences, Rep. I haven’t worked with those old boards for about 10 years. Don’t miss it a bit.

                  If they’re still using the AMF troubleshooting chart, toss it! It’s pretty much worthless. Only a couple of the suggestions they made are correct.

                  If memory serves me, there is a ½ watt, 333 ohm resistor on the 5 board that goes out often. When you replace it, use a 1 watt resistor & it won’t ever give you problems again.

                  Now, for the other 1,001 problems you’ll be seeing… I have a notebook that my mentors compiled for troubleshooting the most common problems. As soon as I get it typed up I’ll e-mail it to you. It’ll save you many hours of hair pulling.

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                  • #10
                    Re: 5 board chassis

                    Another major thing, besides keeping the boards cool, that will help overall… These boards are very fickle. Once you have a chassis that works on a particular lane, mark the chassis & the boards with that lane #. (Don’t use pencil. The graphite is conductive & can cause misc problems that you’ll never be able to figure out) If you try to do the PCB shuffle, a good board may test bad because it doesn’t like the other boards that you want it to work with.

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                    • #11
                      Re: 5 board chassis

                      Without Omega-Teks, ALL of the chassis components come into play... the Auxiliary boards can cause some weird cycle problems if they fail (luckily not very often), and the power supply components (especially the old capacitors, etc...) that are mounted in the chassis can cause problems if the electrolyte dries out, the plates short, etc...

                      Omegaboards are the way to go if at all possible... they strap out a lot of the troublesome components, as well as eliminate the old (troublesome) 5-board system.
                      <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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                      • #12
                        Re: 5 board chassis

                        Dutch, many thanks my friend, whenever you can get those notes to me would be great. I'm still hoping to get MK-70's in there but for now I just wanna lessen the problems for the guy there when I come in to help him and learning these boards would help a great bit. As for some of his other probs I can handle those, his machines are older than ours but the main components naturally (aside from the 5 boards) are the same so no probs there [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] Also I meant to ask since collecting this info and finally copying "G"'s pinouts for the C1 and C2-A plugs (thanks again "G", those are great!), does anyone have a listing or chart of the terminals in the A&amp;MC box and maybe a pinout for the A&amp;MC plug? I can never seem to remember what is what especially in the A&amp;MC box, rarely have a problem with the plug. Any info would be greatly appreciated, and thanks one more time for the replies guys [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                        All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 5 board chassis

                          I have boxes full of boards for the 5 board chassis. Email me, and we can talk about sending them out there.
                          My mom always said there was one crazy person on every bus,... but I could never find him.

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                          • #14
                            Re: 5 board chassis

                            Damn, Smokey, You never threw those out? Actually, I thought Greg threw them out years ago.

                            Rep, Notebook is on its way as I type this. Have fun!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 5 board chassis

                              If he cannot afford to buy 1 Omega Tek board per month at $150 or so per board, have him close the doors.......keeping those boards running does not make good business sense.

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