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PLEASE HELP!!!

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  • PLEASE HELP!!!

    OH MY GOSH! We have been having so much trouble with lane number 3. First off on saturday the sweep wasnt stopping at guard position. What would happen is that on the first ball cycle, the sweep would drop down then the table would come down pick up the pins then the sweep would go all the way back and sweep of any dead wood or whatever and then it would come back but it wouldnt stop at guard position and wait for the table to drop the pins. After the table dropped the pins on the deck the sweep dropped back down without us pressing anything and continue its cycling. So what we did was we changed the starter switch, and the problem didn't go away, we changed chassis' with a chassis off of lane 10 which was working perfectly on lane 10, we changed the sweep motor, and we changed the gripper protection switch. Nothing worked, we still had a problem and we cant figure it out. We even messed with the cams. I have no clue as to what it is or might be. Oh forgot to tell you the rest of the story. Our mechanic came in to work at about 1:00 well he suggested it was the starter switch but we explained to him that we put a new one on but he wasn't convinced so he took the starter switch off of lane 10 and put it on lane 3 and well the machine worked fine. It was working fine for about 24 hours. It gave us no trouble on monday night league or tuesday morning but when tuesday night league came it messed up. Now what it was doing is the sweep would come down to guard on first ball cycle and the table would go down sweep swept then table came back up. Now this was on first ball cycle. When we pushed cycle again the sweep would go down to guard position and nothing happened it just stayed their. We can hear the button click inside the chassis so we know that its not that but its like not getting the message to the table or to anything else to cycle through again. We have run out of ideas so if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

  • #2
    Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

    Hey Bowlingchick, well by the sounds of it I would check your SA cam and make sure the clampstud didn't come loose. If it did then the cam may have spun out of adjustment. Next check the SA cam follower. The nut may have come loose and the bolt turned itself in. While you are messing with the follower, pull it out, listen to micro-switch, does it click? If not, the switch may be bad. Good Luck! [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

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    • #3
      Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

      Some odd problems there to say the least. I was thinking something in the cams as well, they can cause all kinds of crazy problems
      All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

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      • #4
        Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

        Originally posted by Rep:
        Some odd problems there to say the least. I was thinking something in the cams as well, they can cause all kinds of crazy problems
        <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You got that right, One cam problem can seem like the machine is just going to self-destruct.

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        • #5
          Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

          I've seen a bad contactor cause both of the problems Chick described. If the upper contacts get burned and pitted they can either stick together, or not allow enough current to pass through them to turn the motor over.
          -- Larry

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          • #6
            Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

            Bowlingchick-Doug in Minn.-The posts you have so far are right on with the problem you've got on your machine. Put 3 and 4 too 66 degrees Guard Position and check the alignment of the sweep cams--in the front of the machine first--then adjust your SA switch. Just to make sure the motor contacts are not sticking---switch the sweep and table fields--Keep us posted and good luck!!!P.S Buy white car touch-up paint and mark all 3 cams so if it goes out you can check your cams for slip if a problem comes up again!! My weekend crew screws with them all the time. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img] :p
            For Sale- Pickled Eggs--10 cents each, 2 for a quarter, I'll have a quarters worth please.

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            • #7
              Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

              Don't overlook the TA1 &amp; TA2. The TA2 controls sweep "run thru".
              Yeah but, We've always done it that way.

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              • #8
                Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

                Originally posted by Brunsamf:
                Don't overlook the TA1 &amp; TA2. The TA2 controls sweep "run thru".
                <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good call here, dont even eliminate table cams due to a sweep problem, the table cams do control the sweep also, TA2 causes sweep runthru and also returns it to guard (on older setups TA1 returns it to guard, any machine where the sweep comes up long before the table it runs off TA1)
                All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

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                • #9
                  Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

                  Most of the major stuff has been covered pretty well... but in a pinch, don't overlook the 'stupid' stuff as well... We had a 10th frame switch wire that chafed against the metal ball chute in the underground a while back that would cause a problem similar to yours, only intermittently. Took weeks to find it.

                  We've also seen cycle switch problems that caused something similar... the weight of the pins and ball pressing against the cushion was enough to trigger the machine... after the ball and pins cleared, it was fine the next few times, then would do it again.

                  In this case, it definitely sound like the sweep is overrunning the zero position, either due to a misadusted cam, or possibly a braking contact not closing correctly and allowing the motor to coast instead of deadstopping.
                  <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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                  • #10
                    Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

                    Chick
                    I would also check the springs on SA and TA1 @ 2 levers to make sure they are not stretched. Also where the shaft goes through the lever sometimes gets dusty and will give you problems. Put a drop of oil on then to make sure they operate properly.

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                    • #11
                      Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

                      Good evening, chick. If I'm not mistaken, you said you heard the "click" in the chassis when a motor was supposed to start, but the motor did not run. That tells you that the problem is a high-voltage one, not a signal voltage (switches). The contactor in the chassis is energizing but the 110v is not getting to the motor. Assuming the klixon has not popped, the problem can be either
                      a) bad upper contacts
                      b) loose wire terminal on the contactor
                      c) bad connection on the pins at C1 plug
                      d) bad connection at either end of the C1 cable in the machine
                      e) bad connection at either end of the motor cord
                      Very often intermittent problems like this are at connection points. On older machines, the motor cords are often ignored. In the motor plug itself, the white wire (neutral) often exhibits heat failure (brittle insulation) and ends up with a poor connection at its terninal.
                      Good luck &amp; let us know!

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                      • #12
                        Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

                        capacitor.

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                        • #13
                          Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

                          okay this is weird to me. Yesterday when I went into work I asked if the problem was fixed and my mechanic said yes and no. He told me that the problem was in the scoring system. He said that it works fine when someone stands in front of the camera. So they changed out a bunch of the camera stuff and the scoring system stuff but it still wasn't working. Well the machine was working but you couldn't put names in and it doesn't do the scoring. I don't know a lot about these machines but what does the scoring system have to do with the problems that I've mentioned before? I just don't understand that. So now our problem is getting our scoring system on lane 3 to work. Thanks for all the great posts and I will keep all of you informed as to what we end up finding or doing. Merci Beaucoup! (Thank you very much)

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                          • #14
                            Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

                            A scoring problem causing something like that is kind of odd, but far from impossible... if the scoring system holds the 'cycle' signal too long, the machine will finish it's 1st ball cycle, and immediately start a 2nd ball cycle (similar to a stuck cycle switch). It'll be OK after it spots, since the signal has cleared somewhere in the 2nd ball cycle, but will do it again on the next ball.

                            Keep us posted!
                            <span style="font-style: italic">Educatio est omnium efficacissima forma rebellionis</span>

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                            • #15
                              Re: PLEASE HELP!!!

                              Bowlingchick,did you get my email???
                              Charley
                              82-70's SS Chassis Omega-Tek w/expanders
                              2009 Qubica scoring 3QT's and 6 box.

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