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  • 180 Hang-up

    Trouble bell rings go to machine,its sitting there with pins in respot cells, the sweep is up the table is up, machine on 2nd ball cycle.
    Ask the bowlers what they saw,they said table only came down then went up and stopped.
    The reason we asked the bowlers is this problem went on for at least 9 months,that I know of,as I only worked 1 day a week in this center and never seen it fixed.
    The machine is a American rebuilt 82/70 installed in 1985,it has M/P chassis, Westinghouse combo motors.
    We swapped the chassis,we swapped over the combo motors,checked r/cell adjustments more than once,we checked S/As T/As and their adjustments but still it happened.
    The only thing I would have done next was change the sweep and table micro switches,but I was not needed in this center again.The place in question did have previous problems with micros which I put down to it being built in a former swamp.The pinwheels used to rust up badly and cause pile-ups.
    Sorry about the length of this thread but I wanted to be as precise as I could to take out all the possible scenarios.
    I hope some one out there can help as I may be going back to this place permantly.
    Willey.
    always doing my best.

  • #2
    Re: 180 Hang-up

    Well there are two things that came to mind. The first is the respot rod, if the pawl is too close to the bat wings then it may not reopen the R.S.C's.

    The second thing is the OOR micro-switch and or wires. Usually when this is a problem the sweep will be at 66 degrees.(guard position)

    Good Luck and let us know what the prob is.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: 180 Hang-up

      Originally posted by pinboy68:
      [QB]Well there are two things that came to mind. The first is the respot rod, if the pawl is too close to the bat wings then it may not reopen the R.S.C's.

      The second thing is the OOR micro-switch and or wires. Usually when this is a problem the sweep will be at 66 degrees.(guard position)

      [QB]
      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If it was the OOR micro-swith. There shouldnt be any pins in the spotting cups. For some reason the spotting solenoid is engaging. But the respot rod is not catching the pawl. Plus it's still in 2nd ball cycle. Weird, I'm going to have to go to work tomorrow and ponder this.
      Even a old dog can bury a bone

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: 180 Hang-up

        We dont think r/cells were to blame or pawl adj.The thing to look at is according to the bowlers only the table moved no sweep run.
        willey.
        always doing my best.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 180 Hang-up

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 180 Hang-up

            I assume you changed the MP board? I've seen a board cause that problem b-4. If you are replacing the micoswitches, don't use UNIMAX switches! Use genuine Microswitch brand! Unimax switches are terrible [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] !
            Jon [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

            website: <a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank"><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/" target="_blank">http://home.earthlink.net/~wb8yjf/</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>
            [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
            I've had enough of hope & chains.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: 180 Hang-up

              Originally posted by Mark Anderson:
              My money is on the Table &amp; / Or sweep Microswitches .

              If it was the OOR micro-swith. There shouldnt be any pins in the spotting cups.

              Ummn , Ah Yeh , This ain't a 82/30 , Don't you mean Re-spot Cells [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

              Again , Just my 10 Cents , Haven't seen , Looked at or worked on a Pinspotter in 3 months
              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ummmmm YUP Thats what I mean. Should know better then post at 3:30 in the morning. But have a question. If the sweep dont come down to guard. What starts the table ?? I thought the SA2 trigger'd the table.
              Even a old dog can bury a bone

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 180 Hang-up

                Willey,

                If it wasn’t for the fact that 2nd ball light was on with no sweep intervention, I would have guessed the table to be intermittently coasting (Possible bad capacitor) or over shooting 355 degrees or even a bad TA1.

                Your problem sounded interesting so I tried to duplicate your problem based on that the sweep never dropped after a ball was thrown.

                What I did was to turn off the sweep switch and cycled the machine.

                Actuated the SB and waited for time delay…As expected the result was table went into a continuous run and the 1rst ball light remained on.

                Then as table was on its way up I actuated the SA…The result was table stopped with RSCs closed and machine was ready for 2nd ball. This was verified by turning the sweep switch back on and every thing was normal after pushing the cycle button.

                So my guess would be to change all your Sweep Micros and verify the wiring is in good shape and installed correctly, make sure your commons are on the correct terminals. Also make sure they are adjusted correctly and the springs are not stretched.

                Triac

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 180 Hang-up

                  Originally posted by old-school-mechanic:
                  </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mark Anderson:
                  My money is on the Table &amp; / Or sweep Microswitches .

                  If it was the OOR micro-swith. There shouldnt be any pins in the spotting cups.

                  Ummn , Ah Yeh , This ain't a 82/30 , Don't you mean Re-spot Cells [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                  Again , Just my 10 Cents , Haven't seen , Looked at or worked on a Pinspotter in 3 months
                  <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ummmmm YUP Thats what I mean. Should know better then post at 3:30 in the morning. But have a question. If the sweep dont come down to guard. What starts the table ?? I thought the SA2 trigger'd the table.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SB, stops the sweep at first guard (66 degrees) then after the time delay the table runs, there's no SA2 but ya know what cam it is [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                  All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 180 Hang-up

                    Originally posted by Magic Triangle 82-70:
                    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by old-school-mechanic:
                    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Mark Anderson:
                    My money is on the Table &amp; / Or sweep Microswitches .

                    If it was the OOR micro-swith. There shouldnt be any pins in the spotting cups.

                    Ummn , Ah Yeh , This ain't a 82/30 , Don't you mean Re-spot Cells [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

                    Again , Just my 10 Cents , Haven't seen , Looked at or worked on a Pinspotter in 3 months
                    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ummmmm YUP Thats what I mean. Should know better then post at 3:30 in the morning. But have a question. If the sweep dont come down to guard. What starts the table ?? I thought the SA2 trigger'd the table.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SB, stops the sweep at first guard (66 degrees) then after the time delay the table runs, there's no SA2 but ya know what cam it is [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Table wont feel for pins if SB isnt opened.

                    Yes, it stops sweep at 66 degrees also.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 180 Hang-up

                      Willey,

                      One other thing comes to mind. Bowlers don’t always give the most accurate details when describing a problem.

                      One example I had: Got a call on the shop phone that an open bowler complained that the 6 pin was always falling. I asked the desk was it happening when it was spotting a full rack or picking up the pins. Desk replied , “They said it was on a full rack”. Go to check it out and found that they were partially right. They threw a lot of gutter balls and when the table tried to pick up a full rack it wouldn’t respot the 6. Sure enough the link was off the 6 RSC.

                      Any way my point being…It might be possible (with an inaccurate description…“The table just went down by itself”), that maybe the first cycle completed as should and your table kept going because of coasting or a TA1 going bad.

                      Something else to think about.

                      Triac

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: 180 Hang-up

                        ][/QUOTE]SB, stops the sweep at first guard (66 degrees) then after the time delay the table runs, there's no SA2 but ya know what cam it is [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img] [/QB][/QUOTE]

                        Wow
                        I call myself a mechanic [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] I cant even get the SA,SB, Switches right. Cant possibly think why I would Call it SA2. Wife has been saying I'm starting to loose my memory. Altimers must be starting to set in [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] Get me a cane &amp; rocker, Put me out to paster
                        Even a old dog can bury a bone

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: 180 Hang-up

                          I would start by checking all the gaps for the respot cells...If one is too tight, the cells will still have pressure on them when they try to open...check all gaps when cells are closed. you will probably find one cell that the 1/4 inch bolt in the cell is a bit too long. if it is borderline, it can be intermintant.....have seen that before

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: 180 Hang-up

                            Wow I call myself a mechanic [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] I cant even get the SA,SB, Switches right. Cant possibly think why I would Call it SA2. Wife has been saying I'm starting to loose my memory. Altimers must be starting to set in [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/frown.gif[/img] Get me a cane &amp; rocker, Put me out to paster
                            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No biggie at all, I'm sure we all knew ya meant SB, I know I did [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]
                            All I want in life is to turn wrenches and climb around pinsetters/pinspotters again :/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: 180 Hang-up

                              Thanks for all the imput guys,it seems to have been narrowed down to the micro switches,which I originally thought was the problem. Because that is all that makes the machine run,micro switch on micro switch off micro switch on etc,etc.
                              Every thing else was eliminated,table motor did creep when I initially seen the fault,but this was changed,whole chassis with MP board was changed,any combination of pins was present in the cells,we tightened up the springs on the T/As S/As and adjusted.
                              But I never seen it fixed and I was in this center today for my first shift in the pro-shop,but I forgot to ask what he did to fix it,I will ring him tomorrow to find out,and post later,i.e; if he has fixed it.
                              willey
                              always doing my best.

                              Comment

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