MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

THIS IS MY FIRST TIME POSTING ANYTHING ON THIS SITE. I'VE ONLY BEEN WORKING AT THE LANES FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS AND THIS PROBLEM HAS GOT ME.
ONE OF OUR LANES WILL NOT SET A FULL RACK OF PINS ON A STRIKE CYCLE. WE HAVE REPLACED ALL THE BOARDS THAT THE BOOK SAYS TO AND NOTHING DIFFERENT HAPPENS. WE HAVE ALSO TRIED DIFFERENT CHASIS FROM MACHINES THAT WE KNOW WORKS. LIKE I SAID THIS IS MY FIRST TIME POSTING AND I AM FAIRLY NEW AT THE 82-70'S GAME. ANYTHING WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED. THANKS!

[JimDorsin]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

Ok...lets start with a few basics...What type of chassis do you have?? what does the pinspotter try to do (IE does it go into a respot cycle, does it go into spot with out shutteling pins?? are there pins in the cups??) what type of scoring system??

[TheGMan143]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

Without the above info, I'll throw out some brainfarts....

Since you said that you changed the boards and the chassis, we can kind of rule out the SP relay, which is a common cause of no-spot... as well as other chassis-related causes. The machine-side C1 and C2A may still be a problem.

If it's happening on ANY strike or second-ball cycle, it's possible that the latch in the table drive hub is hanging up and not pulling free to allow the table to run into spotting position. Another cause (further up the line) would be that the spotting solenoid is either not working, or not strong enough to unlatch the table drive.

One thing that caught my eye was that you said a 'FULL RACK' of pins... that draws a distinction in my mind. If it is spotting normally, but with only a partial rack, the Bin Switch or the actuator is sticking, or possibly the BS wires have chafed/broken... there aren't too many other things that will cause the particular problem of spotting a partial rack.

With a little more info, I think we'll have this nailed down in short order... Keep us posted.

[RonnieO]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

Wires in table going to cells?
Common to have one come off it's terminal on top of respot cell, or even have break in wire.
Then it can lay on something metal, will give false signal that a pin is in that cell, no strike cycle.
Another common one is cell wire came off and is hanging down touching nothing. Bowler leaves just that pin, machine will think it was a strike, spots new rack on top of it.

[Puddles]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

1) Chassis type - old and gold - i.e., don't know.
2) What does table do? It goes to grab pins (if a strike, it acts like finger are picking up imaginery pins. All 10 pins in cups are waiting to be dropped.
3) Scoring - 12 Strike - ruled out. Scores great. Scores a strike just won't drop pins. Goes to 2nd ball and waits for you to throw 2nd ball.
4) Happens on any strike cycle. Not on a 2nd ball cycle.
5) Wires in table are all connected. No wires off.

Thanks again,

Puddles

[JimDorsin]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

Ok.....old and gold....Prob 5 board. Do you have the gripper switches hooked up?? (switch right by the 9 pin that wont let table respot if there cells are closed) if not, then make sure the table cable is pluged in. If it is, open the wireway and make sure there are no wires off the terminal board that is right on top of the capasitors...that is where the respot wires end up...if something is shorting out there, you could be getting a false respot signal...next question. do the other lanes go and feel for pins before they go into a strike cycle?? or do they drop sweep...time delay....sweep deck and spot?? I need to know if you have a long or short strike cycle.

[TheGMan143]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

I think you're right, Jim... probably an SS chassis.

Now for the next question... is it still running the original 5-board system, or has it been updated to an Omniboard system of some type. Judging by the comment about "changed all the boards that the book said to", I going to guess they're running the original 'SS' boards. There's nothing in the service manual about Omni's of any kind.

Since chassis have been swapped from other working lanes w/ no change in the problem, and the scoring system is seeing a strike, it's definitely machine-related.

With the original boards, the sweep and table cams interacted with the chassis to trigger pin read and operation of the pindication circuits, they would stay with the machine (not move with the chassis), and the comment was made that gripper problems were ruled out. Just a thought.

It sure does sound like a problem caused by a short in the gripper/table wiring (phantom pin)... since that was supposedly eliminated, what about a short on the TAC board or in the front wireway? Maybe a chafed or pinched wire leading to the TAC board?

[Puddles]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

1) Chassis - It is a 5 board. We have converted two to a Omega-Tek.
2) GPS good.
3) Table cable good.
4) Terminal board good.
5) All lanes feel for pins and then register a strike.

[JimDorsin]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

then there has to definantly be a short somewhere...one of the respot wires is finding a ground and telling the chassis there is a pin when there isn't one.....follow those wires carefuly, also look for anything that may have droped down into the terminal strips.....its a long shot, but if a wirehair or a nut or something is shorting across a terminal it could send a false ground....time to pull out your schamitics

[old-school-mechanic]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

Go to the wireway where the table cable comes in. Get a needlenose pliers and 1 at a time pull the wire then cycle machine. 1 thru 10. At the end of 10 cycles you will know if its a respot wire. If it works during this process. The last wire pulled is the culprit. This saves alot of time try to search the wire-ways.
P.S make sure you knock down all the pins

[Puddles]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

If you pull each wire, won't it still try to grab for pins? Remember, I'm a rookie, this should show at least one pin standing, still confused? Am I missing something?

[old-school-mechanic]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

This test is to find out if one of the wires to the fingers is grounding out. You sweep the pin deck so no pins. Then pull the wire that has 1 on it, also has 1 on the strip. Cycle the machine. If it set's a full rack that wire is the problem. If not, hook it back up & pull the 2 wire. Make sure it's first ball cycle & no pins on deck. Cycle the machine. Continue this untill you get a stike cycle. If you do get a strike, The wire pulled is grounding out somewhere between there & the fingers. If you go thru all 10 wires & still no strike. Then the trouble is NOT between there & the table.

[Flying Elvis]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

Puddles,

The table is always going to try and grab for pins after the 1st ball. The problem you seem to be having, is that the chassis is being 'told' that there is a pin remaining, even though there is not. Check each table wire closely from the point it attaches to the respot cell, back thru the table channel to the table cable... or follow old school's advise about pulling one wire at a time. Also check to and see if any wires have been previously spliced within the table channels. It's been my experience that many times you'll find a loose connection if the wires have previously been joined via a butt connector or wire nut within the table channel. Good Luck.

[old-school-mechanic]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

Check your e-mail....I sent you a private message with my Cell phone #
If you have MSN messenger, I'm online
bigbear21@hotmail.com

[Rep]

Re: MACHINE DOES'NT SET PINS ON STRIKE CYCLE

Also if I may add, check the adjusting 1/4 screws in the cells. If one backs out enough it'll mess the gap up as well as grounding the cell at all times = no strike cycle. If those all check out ok I would do as mentioned go through each cell individually, with a little time you will find the problem cell/wire and you can just work from there. Feel free to shoot me a msg/AIM/ICQ or email if ya need help.