30's and 70's.Differences.

[nighthawk]

Being a Brunswick guy and always curious to the AMF units,what is the difference between the 82/30 and 82/70 etc.I remember a long time ago working on an AMF but to get it to operate if it stopped they had to replace what he called at the time"crystals"like in old cb radios.What was that if someone knows.
The AMF doesn't look to bad to work on but why 3 motors(if i am correct)and are they hard to deal with when replacing?
How bad is the distributor in problems or the shuttle?Any table or ball exit troubles?
I know,alot of questions but,there are some AMF places around here and learning them would be a good thing,then this way i know both worlds!(sort of).Any info on the machines and the trouble spots is great!How frequent are table jams and does a table jam mainly from too many pins being fed into it or is it a spotting cup issue?

[8270_Wang]

Re: 30's and 70's.Differences.

check out this thread
<a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank"><a href="http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000" target="_blank">http://www.bowltech.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001082#000000</a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a></a>


wang

[Gadget]

Re: 30's and 70's.Differences.

Hi Nighthawk,

I work in one of the few remaining UK 30's centres and have a certain "love" for our machines. Going back to when they were first made, you just have to think what thought process went throught the brains of the designers. There are many quirks, but at the end of the day the mechanical side is generally simple ableit can be tedious. The electrical side however is not, i'm an electrician myself and i can appreciate the design circuitry of the 30's considering the technology when it was developed. We have depending on chassis type a couple of transformers and 8ish relays which love to burn out when you least expect it. The 70's chassis has all solid state relays and no moving parts so if it goes wrong its a board swap, back on my 30's we could be soldering or loop testing cables to see if they have "broke".
The machine itself shares many parts, the carpet, bounceplate, front and back roller area are identical. The pinwheel is almost the same although due to the fact the 70 contionously feeds pins it does not need the toggles to hold the pins to the wheel, the dizzy doesnt have a pin counter either for the same reason. Main stops on 30's come from counter not doing its job. The dizzy on a 30 has a clutch controlling a toothed wheel that follows a track around the table, moving on when the pin trips the paddle. A 70's dizzy head floats above the table and has a big plastic cam that sends it around to feed the pins into the shuttle. This is why 70's are quicker, do to 10 pins in the shuttle ready to be spotted where as the 30 has to wait for pins to be feed. 30's do not have sweep reverse like 70's. The sweep assembly differs greatly also, the 30 has a lot parts that get bent or break when a sweep hit occurs, the 70 can take the brunt alot more i believe. The gearbox/stator combo motors are a lot smaller on a 70 and are at the front of the machine with only 3 bolts to remove, my 30's have lots of linkages and bolts to get out and are in the pit area just above the curtain.
Generally they tweaked all the annoying features from the 30 to get a 70, the 8800 gold and 90 and XL i believe just have newer and "better" motors and electronics with not alot of difference from the 70. The XL has one benifit though, the pinwheel hinges open and the carpet/bounceplate assembly just slides out of the machine, so changing a carpet or roller takes no time at all, we have to slide eacc roller to the adjacent machine taking 3 lanes out and greatly incresing time.

Well i think that was my longest post, hope it helps, any 70's techs please advise if i got anything wrong, I have been around a few but not worked on them.......one day!!!!!


kev

[Gadget]

Re: 30's and 70's.Differences.

Forgot to mention the re-spot cell...how could I

30's

big cumbersome double padded unit with a switch to indicate a picked up pin, looped onto next cell (K&amp;L circuit)this often breaks down due to constant moving and knocking hence no strike cycle problems. Latch often breaks, side get jammed in adjacent cells/cups. offspot pins cause blackout as not alot of leeway on postion.

70.s

two thin arms cover an arc area to pick up pins, all interlocked to each other so only 1 switch required to sense if pin has been picked up.
I believe they are a bit fragile though.

[toon30s]

Re: 30's and 70's.Differences.

Originally posted by gadget:
Forgot to mention the re-spot cell...how could I

30's

big cumbersome double padded unit with a switch to indicate a picked up pin, looped onto next cell (K&amp;L circuit)this often breaks down due to constant moving and knocking hence no strike cycle problems. Latch often breaks, side get jammed in adjacent cells/cups. offspot pins cause blackout as not alot of leeway on postion.

Easy to change.

70.s

two thin arms cover an arc area to pick up pins, all interlocked to each other so only 1 switch required to sense if pin has been picked up.
I believe they are a bit fragile though.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If one is far enough out of whack, the whole table does not pick up pins.

I think the 70 dist is by far the weakest link of the machine, but the shuttle is not far behind. I also dislike the way the tilting action of the cups. The 30 uses a cam and moves a bit slower and does not tilt as far which seems to make it more reliable. The motors are far easier to change on the 70s than the 30s, but both are very reliable.
The thing I like about the 30 is (at least here in the US) is that 30s are cheap to buy as whole machines. 70s are holding their value making buying whole machines for parts more costly. Nearly every center around me that has 30s has bought whole machines for parts and the only parts they buy are the rubber parts or belts.
Of course, the 30s are harder to find mechanics for...

[Gadget]

Re: 30's and 70's.Differences.

For definate,
I know of several 70's mechs who have seen my 30's and walked away puzzled having not worked on them before.

[the_blue_dragon]

Re: 30's and 70's.Differences.

i am on the 30's and all i can say that they are lean, mean, pinspotting machene and and temp fixes can last through a league to a week to a mounth to a year and so on

they ant fussy as long as all your micro switches work and get a cell protection unit for your 30

talk to len about that works wounders [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

but like all machenes they have there upos and downs but amf machenes i have found a lot simpler that the a2's saw one today and you poor blokes working on them i really want to stay clear for a wile [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

[jez]

Re: 30's and 70's.Differences.

i worked on 30's briefly a couple of years ago, but since getting to almost 'guru' standard on the '70 and learning exactly how to set things up so they WORK as opposed to setting them up how the book says then scratching your head for 2 weeks because it wont run!, that aside, if you keep an eye on the condition of straps ETC 70 shuttles dont give trouble on the whole, only had one real problem in 2 years of circa 8000 games a week/22 lanes and that was a broken spring on the shuttle operating link, as for distributors, once again, once you twig how to set them up, they run superbly, they are a bit fragile granted, but with a little attention now and again they run superbly.

long and short with distributors: keep the rollers and rails clean, keep the belt clean, keep a smear of grease on the stop blade and you will get a few months between service intervals, and 9/10 services are just a clutch strip, clean and pinion lube, bit of oil on the trip rod bushes and other pivots, they are not THAT bad at all

long and short with shuttles:
once a month you need to feel for the security of the brown shuttle fingers (cant think of the proper name - mental blank) and make sure the straps are inplace and intact and indeed IN THE RIGHT PLACES!, i use a moly grease on the tie rods and the bushes every 6 months, job done

[30n70]

Re: 30's and 70's.Differences.

I have both 30's and 70's in one house. Take good care of your 30's....they are (old) bulldozers and are very dependable if maintained. Keep your offspot switches and sweep brakes in good order.
If you have'nt done so,and possibly can, replace the stepper,timer,and PR's with one of the electronic boards available. I have'nt swapped a chassis on a 30 in 2 years.
When AMF designed the 30's, machines were to be repaired and last forever.
Hit sweeps...Aggghhh