MP chassis relays

[Ten Pounds]

Greeting gentlemen, this is my first post and I have learned alot from ya'll over the years just by reading from everyone else's problems. Thanks Bowl-Tech for a great site!
I have a problem I cannot believe is a problem=> The table relay in the MP chassis. I ordered new relays from AMF for lane #2 MP chassis, got the smaller/newest Siemans relays to replace the older ones I have been rebuilding. Wired the new ones to the same configuration as older style (new ones have 5 terminals across top, A1 on one side & A2 on the other with the normal NO & NC terminals). Now have the table relay acting normal EXCEPT: the table will not spot new pins (the solenoid doesn't pull in to hold the spot arm, shifting the bin, and setting new pins). The sweep relay was also replaced, wired the same as the old one and WORKS PERFECTLY! The table also works perfectly on all other areas. Have double checked wiring position/connections of original configuration. Put on a spare, wired like the older ones- works perfect? Any ideas- is there a tech bulletin on the new soleniod?

[8270_Wang]

Re: MP chassis relays

Welcome to bowltech. I too have learned alot.
As to your problem with the solenoid not activating, could be a bad SPOT relay inside the chassi or possibly burned pins in the c1 plug. Another thing to do is to try the chassi from lane 1 on 2 to see if the problem is machine side or chassi side. Hope this helps.

Wang

[JimDorsin]

Re: MP chassis relays

Sounds to me like you have 1 wire in the wrong place. The spot relay 'Steels' its 110 volts from the incoming power to the sweep (as do other items) The power comes in at pin 'H' from the c1 plug and goes to the table. there is a jumper that runs from there to the sweep (or another connector in the same circuit) The spot solenoid also takes power from that circuit. Best bet, (since out of 10 chassis, you will have 7 different ways of wiring depending on who has had there hands on them over the years) is to look at an unaltered chassis, find the wire that runs to your sp relay from that circuit, and make sure it has continuity to the corresponding circuit in the chassis with the new relays.

Hope that made sense...Good luck

Paul

[Ten Pounds]

Re: MP chassis relays

Thanks for the info, I'll triple check that. Thanks Mate

[Kat]

Re: MP chassis relays

Has this chassis been checked on another pinsetter to see if the problem is in the chassis itself?

[nick300_us]

Re: MP chassis relays

Originally posted by Ten Pounds:
Greeting gentlemen, this is my first post and I have learned alot from ya'll over the years just by reading from everyone else's problems. Thanks Bowl-Tech for a great site!
I have a problem I cannot believe is a problem=> The table relay in the MP chassis. I ordered new relays from AMF for lane #2 MP chassis, got the smaller/newest Siemans relays to replace the older ones I have been rebuilding. Wired the new ones to the same configuration as older style (new ones have 5 terminals across top, A1 on one side & A2 on the other with the normal NO & NC terminals). Now have the table relay acting normal EXCEPT: the table will not spot new pins (the solenoid doesn't pull in to hold the spot arm, shifting the bin, and setting new pins). The sweep relay was also replaced, wired the same as the old one and WORKS PERFECTLY! The table also works perfectly on all other areas. Have double checked wiring position/connections of original configuration. Put on a spare, wired like the older ones- works perfect? Any ideas- is there a tech bulletin on the new soleniod?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

[nick300_us]

Re: MP chassis relays

I've changed these table relays before and I've made a mistake. Check to see if you have a jumper wire running from the table relay to the sweep relay without this jumper it won't spot pins. Compare it to a table relay thats working if you look at the relay I think it goes on the back terminal to the right.

[wb8yjf]

Re: MP chassis relays

Hey 10 lbs. Just for the future, you should refer to the Table &amp; Spot "relays" as contactors. The (3) relays in the chassis are the M, M2, and S. We all caught what you meant, but it is kinda confusing at time if you refer to the contactors as relays [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] I tend to agree with all the posts here so far. Sounds like a missing power wire. You are better off with the new style contactors anywho... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] 'Specailly if you went back to the original style contactor &amp; it worked OK. A side by side comparison can save you a lot of headaches...
Jon [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[Lampie]

Re: MP chassis relays

OK, can somebodyone, explain me, anglo-analf, the difference between a contactor and a relay?
Contactor is not even in my dictionary(or is it lexicon?). [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Martin

[TheGMan143]

Re: MP chassis relays

Originally posted by Lampie:
OK, can somebodyone, explain me, anglo-analf, the difference between a contactor and a relay?
Contactor is not even in my dictionary(or is it lexicon?). [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

Martin

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">To be honest, the terms could be used interchangably in most cases... There are some differences which started the naming game "relay" vs/ "contactor".

A relay normally has 2-4 contacts per switching circuit. 1 or 2 of them will be 'fixed' points, while the other 1/2 will be attached to a common movable assembly that travels in an arc (attached/hinged at one end, with the contacts at the other). There may be more than one "switching circuit" encolsed in the same housing, but each circuit will follow those parameters. Look at your M/M2 "relays": 3 "switching circuits, each containing 4 contact points... 2 'fixed' (NO and NC and 2 'movable' (COM). Normally, "relays" can handle lighter-amperage loads (under 30A).

A "Contactor" draws the distinction of having 2 fixed 'pads' that connect to the wiring of a circuit. The circuit is completed by a springloaded 'bridge' that contains 2 movable pads that pull in via a magnetic coil (in a straight in/out motion, because the 'bridge(s)' are attached at the center or both ends) and touch the fixed pads. No external wiring connects to the bridge (as it does in a relay). Again, there may be more than one 'switching circuit' in the same housing. Usually, "relays" that have this kind of configuration and handle high amperages (30/50A up to 1000A or more) are referred to as 'contactors'.

Hope you're taking notes.. there's going to be a test on this later... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif[/img]

Never fear... they all do pretty much the same thing. Some engineer had to justify his job by coming up with a new name for the same item. Remember, it's not English... it should be called 'Americanese'. This is the same language that has paradoxes like saying 'f' but spelling it 'ph' (like PHone &amp; elePHant... it should be 'fone' and 'elefant'), and such braintwisters as 'driving on a parkway', and 'parking in a driveway' (shouldn't it be 'parking on a parkway' and 'driving on a driveway'?).

Just a little American English 101 for ya... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[Kat]

Re: MP chassis relays

Originally posted by TheGMan143:
Remember, it's not English... it should be called 'Americanese'. This is the same language that has paradoxes like saying 'f' but spelling it 'ph' (like PHone &amp; elePHant... it should be 'fone' and 'elefant'), and such braintwisters as 'driving on a parkway', and 'parking in a driveway' (shouldn't it be 'parking on a parkway' and 'driving on a driveway'?).

Just a little American English 101 for ya... [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like you've been hanging around too much with Gallagher. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

[Lampie]

Re: MP chassis relays

Hope you're taking notes.. there's going to be a test on this later...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I trust my switched brains and the fixed search button...

Thank you GMan

Martin
Am I a relay or a contactor type?

[TheGMan143]

Re: MP chassis relays

Originally posted by Kat:
Sounds like you've been hanging around too much with Gallagher. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He's one of my heroes... One of the greatest comics alive.

I even ordered my own personal sledge-o-matic... it helps out a lot with those pesky "fine-tuning" machine adjustments. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img]

[JimDorsin]

Re: MP chassis relays

Originally posted by TheGMan143:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Kat:
Sounds like you've been hanging around too much with Gallagher. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He's one of my heroes... One of the greatest comics alive.

I even ordered my own personal sledge-o-matic... it helps out a lot with those pesky "fine-tuning" machine adjustments. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif[/img] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have named mine "moe"


It makes parts fit moe better!!!!

[Mark_S]

Re: MP chassis relays

If anyone checks my previous thread no spotting in this section. Now I didn't post this info, but our spotting problem started after we had changed the table contactor for the newer style. There were some instruction saying it had to be wired up differently, but it didn't work so we wired up the original way. It worked for a while then stopped spotting. Having said that, we also fitted one of the new contactors on a sweep and that has been fine.... but then it would be.

Just though I'd put this in.