Chassis problem...need help

[VADistMech]

SS chassis with Omega Tek and Qubica scoring and XLMP interface. First ball sweep runs, table feels for pins comes up and hesitates- first ball light goes out and strike light comes on shuttles pins in cups drops pins in Respot cells and dumps the full rack of pins. [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif[/img]
What I have tried: Swapped chassis with spare-problem solved. BUT..
I want to figure out whats wrong with this chassis. I swapped out Omega Tek boards- same problem. Table cable is not hooked up. Cant see any thing physically wrong in chassis. Replaced relays (what the hell), checked C1 and C2A pins and sockets-seems ok. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

[TheGMan143]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

It seems you've gone through the obvious things, (C-plug wiring, table cable connection board, and 'removable' chassis components)...

First of all, make sure that the set of green wires off the MK70EX expander card are firmly (and correctly) attached to the MK70 control board... without that cable, you only have partial communication between the scoring and the machine, which could cause botched cycles. Don't just eyeball it... unplug it and the reconnect it in it's correct position.

You might want to throw the malfunctioning chassis back on the machine and watch the red LED's on the MK70EX expander card. Normally, when pins are left standing on a 1st ball, the lights should flicker briefly and then show the number of pins left standing in additive 1-2-4-8 indication (i.e. if the 1-2-4 lights are lit, there should be 7 pins on the deck). There is another indicator on the board that lights for "off normal" or out-of-range conditions. If the "off normal" light keeps turning on, or the pincount lights do not light/flicker, there may be a problem with lane communication (XLMP or cable), or with the expander board itself. XLMPs are kind of funny too... if one gets squirrely, sometimes it will work for a while with a different chassis. The only way to find out is to see if the problem goes away or shows up somewhere else when the XLMPs are swapped. When the XLMP is communicating for a pincount/machine control, the green LED on it with flicker from red to green VERY quickly. If it keeps going red and staying like that for a while, usually a problem is indicated.

Just to clarify... swap ONLY the boards out of the malfunctioning chassis back to that lane with the working chassis that was replaced... ONE AT A TIME, to see which one is causing the grief. I would guess the expander card would be the culprit, as it sends the scoring signal to the MK70 board to control the cycles.

*NOTE: This is usually the case, however I will say that I've seen OT boards that are more "picky" about cam switch tolerances and operation than others. Check/replace the switch packs and go through the cam settings, then retry the chassis. If the problem disappears, it was the cams. If it stays, read on. At first glance, it looks like an SP relay sticking, but you are saying that the ball lights are changing as well. A sticking relay won't do that, but marginal cam settings or failing camswitches will.

If the machine runs normally, you have eliminated the OT boards as the cause. If your chassis stil has the little "adapter" card in it (small card with a big silver relay on the wall of the chassis that's hardwired to the mother board) The OT board can ignore a working adapter, and basically straps it out, however I've seen a shorting or malfunctioning card can cause weird stuff to happen with cycles (in the original configuration with the old 5-boards, the adapter card was used for ball cycle memory). If you are never going back to 5-boards, clip off the wires to the adapter board (close to the motherboard so they don't short)and discard it... it's not needed at all with OT's.

That problem can also happen because of a failing T1 transformer or other power supply problems.

Keep us posted... Good luck

[wb8yjf]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

I've seen that b-4 with a bad expander board! BUT you say that you moved good boards to the chassis & this still happens? Weird...what about the scoring? You move any of that around? [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] [img]/content/btubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/usflag.jpg[/img]

[VADistMech]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

Still screws up without the scoring connected. Ill try snipping the wires on the small card since that is not needed.

[Bowling-MX]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

If I read your post right, You are getting a
false "X" cycle.

Is that correct?

[JimDorsin]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

Your post didnt specify, do you have expanders? If so, maybe soemone moved the jumper that turnes the expander on and off. If it is off, you need the table cable pluged in as the expander is bypassed and it needs the cell signals (assuming any gripper bypass is done in the wireway)

[TheGMan143]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

I was taking it for granted that they had expanders... if they're using XLMP's, there has to be something to plug the comm cable to... the MK70 board doesn't have an input port for scoring.

[VADistMech]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

Yes expander is installed.
It does seem to be a false strike cycle.
I have tried switching all of the OT boards, same problem. Also table wiring is not connected.

[TheGMan143]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

Oh, BTW...

If you connect ONLY the MK70 controller board in the chassis to test it, the expander is no longer holding the #1 or #5 pin circuit closed... you have to ground out one pin on the terminal strip to see if it's working properly, or it will always run a strike. The controller by itself is looking for input from the respot cell circuits... when the expander is installed, it 'tricks' the controller into thinking that the fingers have pins in them.

With an expander installed, and without the scoring cable attached from the XLMP (or with the scoring system OFF), the machine should NEVER run a strike... the signal from the scoring camera is what allows the pin circuit to open and lets the machine run a strike cycle.

Make sure you are using a jumper card with a green wire attached to it, and check that the wire from the little jumper card didn't fall off of the terminal... that can cause some screwy things to happen.

You may want to install ONLY the expander board into a chassis with a working MK70 control board... if the problem moves with it, the expander may not be holding in the pin circuit and is causing a false strike.

If a working set of boards was installed and it's still running a strike on top of standing pins, there may be a motherboard connection that is shorting or opened, and it's not allowing the expander to tell the MK70 that there are pins standing. I never really dug into just where the pin signal travels between the two cards (through the wire harness between the boards, or through the existing circuits on the motherboard). Pull the bottom cover off of the chassis and make sure that there's no solder joints broken or any kind of metal filings/whatnot causing a short.

This is an interesting one... Just out of curiosity, if you index the machine to 2nd ball and cycle it, what happens? Does it run a normal 2nd ball cycle or does it act up? How about 1st ball foul? From what I'm gathering, it seems that the machine is running pretty normally in regards to it's cycles, just that there is nothing telling it that pins are standing on the deck, so it runs a strike.

[VADistMech]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

I'll check the motherboard. All other cycles run properly. Thanks Gman

[bamm]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

On my machines when this happens I change
spot relay in chassis and that most of the
time fixes it but I do have an old 5-board
that won't do it every time but at least
1 time an hour.


BAMM

[TheGMan143]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

I though it was an SP problem at first glance, too... but he's saying that during the malfunction, the ball cycles are changing. An SP can cause pins to spot on top of standing ones, but it won't cause the strike light to fire.

On your old 5-board, that problem can be caused by a malfunctioning #1 board, #3 board, or a flaky Auxiliary board.

[bamm]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

Never watched ball light when it happened. W ill check boards friday.

[Rep]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

G nailed it as usual... Bad SP relay will spot over pins but I ruled that out almost immediately once I read the ball light going out and the "X" light coming on... It's gotta be something else. Never seen it myself, could be something with the scoring or the expander most likely

[Dutch]

Re: Chassis problem...need help

When I was at the Hilton that was a fairly common problem. We'd plug the table cable back in & move the jumper to the "with table cable installed" position. In a day or 2 we'd go back, unplug the table & move the jumper back. It had almost always fixed itself. While I was there we never figured out what was causing it.

Smokey? Jim? Did you guys ever figure it out?