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Electrical help


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  • Electrical help

    Hello! Well I have a motor that I was starting to fix and I forgot to write down where each wire went (so I screwed myself) and now I can't get the dang thing to work. I tried looking at other motors to see if I am wiring it correctly and all the motors are different. It is a sweep motor but the wirings look completely different and I have tried switching wires and everything else. So if anyone can help me that would be so great. It is a Westinghouse AC Motor. I don't know if you need to know this stuff but I'll give it to you anyways. Thermo Type T; S# 311P304; Ser A B73; Type FJ. (This is all I wrote down) I found that most of the Ser numbers on some our other motors are the same but I couldn't find one that had A B73. I tried looking at a wiring diagram but it just confused the heck out of me and it didn't help much. I'm a newby to working on sweep motors and their is so many wires that I get confused. I've only been working with my bowling alley for 3 years and 2 of the three years on mechanical work so i'm basically still learning everything. Anyways, thanks for your help and time.

  • #2
    Re: Electrical help

    HI, Chic. Here are some basics for your motor.
    Every stator has two windings: one for starting and one for running.
    When a motor is turned on, both windings power up, but the START winding needs to turn off before the motor reaches full speed (about 1/10th of a second). This is controlled by the start switch and its operating mechanism called the centrifugal mechanism. The RUN winding stays on after that for as long as power is applied.
    While idle (off), the start switch is in its closed condition by the position of the centrifugal mechanism. As the rotor begins to spin, centrifugal force pulls the mech's disc down and away from the switch, opening the start winding circuit before full speed.
    If this does not happen and the switch stays closed, the start winding stays on with the run winding, and the two different resistances fight each other, causing the motor to run noisy and eventually heat up. On the opposite hand, if the contacts in the start winding don't make contact, thereby not allowing the start winding to turn on in the first place, the motor will not start at all and just hum, heat up, and hopefully pop the thermal overload (klixon).

    Now here's the meat of it all:
    Each winding (start & run) has two wires, just like any household device, to provide voltage (hot) and a return (neutral). Therefore, for both windings in your stator, you have four wires coming out of the windings. There may be two additional wires coming out, one of which goes to the klixon. If this is so, just know that the klixon wire that seems to go into the winding is not really connected to the winding , but just tied to them and passing around to the other side of the stator. This is done merely as a convenience by the manufacturer. These klixon wires are usually brown, although one of them may be purple.
    Unless your stator has been rewound locally, in which case any colors may have been used, the standard is BLACK & RED for the start winding and YELLOW & BLUE (or GREEN) for the run winding.
    One more thing: If your motors still run two switches inside the end bell, one is the the main switch (it has the terminals and the studs on it) and the other is an auxiliary switch (just one terminal and a wire, no studs).

    OK. Here we go:

    On the main board:
    Terminal #1:
    Red wire from the receptacle
    Red wire from itself (with round ring terminal)

    Terminal #2:
    White wire from receptacle
    Green Wire from run winding

    Terminal #3:
    Yellow wire from the run winding
    Yellow wire from the receptacle
    Purple wire from the klixon

    Terminal #4
    Black Wire from the receptacle
    Black wire from the start winding

    Terminal #6
    Red wire from the start winding
    Black wire from itself (tab at switch)
    Black wire with ring terminal from aux. switch

    Connect with wire nut:
    Brown wire fron klixon
    Brown wire from receptacle

    If the auxiliary switch has bee eliminated, just disregard the wires from it to the main switch, but cut off the black one that is a permanent part of the main.

    If yours seems to vary from this, re-post and I'll watch for you.

    Best of Luck!


    • #3
      Re: Electrical help

      very well said bowl.


      • #4
        Re: Electrical help

        Now changing the centrifugal mech. is a different story.
        Why yes, we wax them everyday!


        • #5
          Re: Electrical help

          Ya, very thurough. I think I'm going to copy that for future reference. It's better than anything I have now.


          • #6
            Re: Electrical help

            Excellent post Bowlequip.


            • #7
              Re: Electrical help

              One more thing: if the wire colors are different than the original (such as in a rewind), here's how to figure out which is which:

              Using an ohm meter, connect the meter leads to two of the winding wires. If you get no reading, move one of the leads to another wire until you get a reading. Record that resistance. Now take a reading across the other two winding wires and record it. The two wires giving you the higher resistance reading go to the start winding.

              At this point I usually mark those two wires with colored tape or wire markers. After putting the motor back together, bench test it. If it runs backwards (wrong way), reverse the red and black start winding wires and re-mark accordingly.


              • #8
                Re: Electrical help

                Okay well I wired it exactly how you said but it still won't work! The only problem is that I don't know if one of the wires is yellow or brown. It is one from the start winding so I figured that it was yellow so I put it on terminal 3 but the dang thing won't work. I'll try your meter reading thing on monday. I've just had a hectic week and I haven't been able to work on it until today. It only took me about 20 minutes to wire it all but when I checked to see if it would run it didn't so then I checked all the wires, they all look good and I really think that they are in the right spot. Thanks for your posts they have really helped a lot in the understanding of how the motor runs. We do have the aux. switch terminal board. I don't know what is wrong. Could the wires be in the way of something and preventing it from starting? I have almost changed every wire in the motor because a lot of them broke off when I was trying to fix it, so could the wires be too long and getting in the way of something? I don't know what to do! I really want to fix this myself but I guess if you can't you just can't. Anyways thanks for all your help!


                • #9
                  Re: Electrical help

                  By the way it isn't huming and I replaced the (gear box) part of the motor with another one so it isn't anything to do with the rotor. It is actually in the electrical part but I am so clueless. I'll try sending a picture on monday to show you how the wires and everything look and maybe someone can help me from there. Just to make sure I have them in the correct position.


                  • #10
                    Re: Electrical help

                    Hiya, chic! Sorry I haven't checked in on you before today (trying to fight a cold while working at the same time! Dumb, huh?).
                    You said the yellow wire is from the start winding. Yellow and blue (or green) are from the run winding, however, it woulg go to terminal 3 anyway. But if it could be brown, is there another that appears to be brown? If not, then it may actually be the klixon wire. Were you able to distinguish the klixon wires and trace them to the other ends? Using the continuity meter or light, trace them out between the klixon soldered terminal and the wire ends to be sure.
                    I'm willing to bet, though, that since it doesn't hum (trying to start), you have an open neutral in the receptacle. Did you look up in there?


                    • #11
                      Re: Electrical help

                      yeah i got the klixon wires, they are in the right spots. there is a wire that looks light brown but i wasn't sure if it was yellow or brown. It is from the windings but it is so old that i really can't tell the color, so i just figured that it might be yellow and i put it on terminal 3. I didn't try the meter thing yet because i am not sure how to read it or even hook it up...i don't even know if we have one? well we should have one since we have electrical in the building so i'll check with the head mechanic tomorrow. i replaced most of the receptacle wires so i don't think that it is in there but just to make sure i'll check it tomorrow because for all i know i probably missed a wire or something got loose. thanks for all your help and i'll post either tomorrow or thursday.


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